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Anyone ditch the sub after large speaker purchase?

I am about to kick the subs to the curb. Having recently acquired a pair of custom made Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 reference, they provide me with enough deep and articulate bass that I don’t even bother with using subs anymore. I mean prodigious amounts of bass...not the bass that is just heard, but also felt, even in the rear listening chairs at the back of the room, which is almost 30 feet away. It feels like I have subs with these new speakers.


Yeah, it’s when playing loud that the rear end of the room is so vigorously energized...and not because of nasty room acoustic anomalies, the seats pick up the pressurized air due to the room being pressurized with 300 tube watts per channel driving highly efficient field coil horn speakers with 18 inch downward firing bass driver and 15 inch forward firing bass driver.


In almost 25 years of sub use and integration with various systems, I find that my newly customized room designed around the principals of room mode mitigation, noise abatement, and damping resonances based on my experience in building secure sound proof spaces, has paid off.


There is nothing like playing music at low levels or loud levels with clarity and preciseness in bass when the stars are aligned and that is why I don’t feel the need for subs anymore. My bass is so awesome with these large almost 400 pound speakers and my amps enjoy driving them to room shaking levels if I played loud enough. Of course, the room investment itself was a considerable factor in my positive listening experience which at Its core is concrete all the way around except the ceiling.


When I stream music, I have to actually turn down the bass of the audio settings in my streamers audio settings. When playing vinyl, the bass goes so deep that I felt as if the subs were on, when in fact, they are not. I am tired or messing around with measurements and dialing in subs for now. It’s not needed and I see why people with large speakers don’t have subs. Perhaps, later on in this audio journey, I might experiment with some type of bass resonators, but I ask myself why? I have all what I need and am not missing anything in terms of bass.


Anyone else ditch the subs after large speaker purchase? What’s been your experiences?
audioquest4life
audioquest4life OP
778 posts
 
@erik_squires,

I agree with this “I've given up, I think the average listener should rely on a system like Dirac or Anthem's ARC or the various similar systems to do this for them.” 
I have over the years gone from a zesty man to being someone who can barely walk. Long gone are the days of crawling on the floor to listen for bass nodes, LOL. The tools I listed above helped a lot, but as you stated, we are merely getting it partially right. Many many hours spent testing and measuring and moving stuff. If one were to use Dirac or ARC, or even lately, Legacy’s Wavelet, probably far better results would ensue. The room is a major contributing factor for sure to help obtain the best sound from ones system.  

big_greg
6,723 posts
 
I ran Legacy Audio Focus 20/20s for a while (three 12" woofers per speaker) and at first I thought I didn't need to use my subs with them.  I didn't "need" to, they produced a prodigious amount of bass on their own but adding 4 subs with an additional 4 15" drivers + 2 13.5" drivers and carefully blending them in, well... it was a completely different experience.  Deeper, more immersive and effortless.
rajugsw
229 posts
 
I ditched my Subs after getting a pair of KEF 105/3’s. Using a miniDSP to replicate the original Bass EQ curve and boost points from a Magazine article from 30 years ago. I was shocked how deep the Bass went into the 30Hz region in my room with no issues !

For watching movies though, I leaned how tired those old Woofers are. Next year, I plan on replacing those 8" Woofers with Dayton Audio (Parts Expresshttps://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss210ho-8-8-reference-ho-subwoofer-8-ohm--295-459) . No Res as well and get rid of any cabinet resonances.

Since I’m never going to sell these since I’ve modified the Hell out them (I just love the quirky design).
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,791 posts
 
+1, ricred1 & big_greg.

I have yet to hear a full range speaker with ‘passive’ bass woofers that can replicate the experience of a well integrated subwoofer.

An average user may have this notion that subwoofers are being added to simply extend bass response. IME, a well designed and integrated subwoofers (with your mains) provides a sense of scale and dynamics superior to any full range speakers on their own. A pair of subwoofers in a acoustically treated room (like mine) provides the most realistic and engaging musical fidelity that is simply unmistakable. 
helomech
1,838 posts
 
Unfortunately, the bass sections of many full-range speakers are dismal compared to a quality sub, both the drivers and cabinet sections. You’re getting into $10K/pair speakers before the bass sections will match the quality of even a $600 sub.

 Then add the fact that with full range speakers, the amplifier is taxed with driving the bass woofers as well as the mids and tweeters. High-passing the mains and relieving their amp of the 3 lowest octaves has the same effect of doubling, maybe even tripling the amplifier power. 

Also, there’s an advantage in being able to place the bass drivers somewhere other than the same plane as the mids and tweets. This is because the optimal room placement for the mids and highs is often a compromise for the bass freqs, due to their omnidirectional nature and long wavelengths.
The downside to subs is of course integration with the mains. I find it’s much easier with a 4th-order, active crossover between the subs and mains amplifier, something similar to the JL CR-1.
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