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Mono vinyl, how do you know if really single channel mono or if stereo recorded to mono

I'm exploring the possibility of getting a mono cartridge. 

Please, I am not trying to start a debate about whether or not that is a good idea. I simply have a question about monophonic records.

How can you tell which records are truly mono and which are actually stereo with 2 identical channels to simulate mono?

I know that for all mono records before stereo there was only one channel cut laterally into the record .  When stereo came out some so called mono recordings were actually 2 channels just like a stereo record with both horizontal and vertical information but  L and R were the same so ended up as mono. I also know that a "true mono" cartridge only has output from the horizontal motion and that the stylus size is different than a stereo stylus, which means according to many aficionados of mono recordings,  in an ideal world you would want a cartridge optimized for mono to play true mono records

again, I do not want to debate the pros and cons of this, just want the facts about the records. If you want to debate something else please start another thread

thanks


herman
herman OP
2,290 posts
 
Great... I have that in mono and listened to it many times on CD. It is a double album reissue in the Verve VSP series (Very Special Performance). No idea how it compares to the originals or the 45 rpm reissues. 

Ella, Louie, Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown and either Buddy Rich or Louis Bellson... how can it be anything but great ?

can't wait to get my cartridge!
herman OP
2,290 posts
 
In case anybody is still paying attention. The Miyajima Zero  is here

 I can’t say definitely why because I’ve never had a mono cartridge, so is it because it is mono or because it is just a good cartridge or ??? But there is something that sounds very “right” about playing my old mono jazz and classical records with it. The horns have a bite and an “in the room” presence that I don’t get from my ZYX. It sounds like music and that's about as good as it gets.

The Original Jazz Classics I have sound very good as well as old mono classical records I inherited years ago from my grandfather. I bought the Beatles "Mono Masters" and so far it sounds like crap.. very bright, but only played side 1 so maybe it gets better. Reissue of Coltrane's mono Atlantic recordings on the way.

so here goes my retirement fund !!

elliottbnewcombjr
5,949 posts
 
regarding Stereo Imaging, this fabulous double live album is excellent engineering

https://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Home-Bon-Voyage-Sardines/dp/B07NBD1QDF

Donna has seen them live twice, I saw them live once in South Orange Theater, awesome, one of the best concerts ever

On wide stage: Left to right: Trombone, horns, tap dancer in front of horns, bass, drummer, singer in front of bass/drums (off center leaving room for tap dancer to her left) , piano/singer far right.

the double album is One: Live in Toronto; Two: Live in NYC

the imaging is reversed, piano on the left. Huh?

Turns out, NYC recording is the concert at Joe's Pub, Donna was there. Yes, that smaller stage the piano was on the left. 

Toronto was a wider stage.

So, I used my McIntosh Mode Stereo Reverse position, got the imaging trombone left, piano right as my brain was expecting! All is Well.

Had I never seen them, my brain wouldn't have searched for trombone left ... piano right


elliottbnewcombjr
5,949 posts
 
I have an Oscar Peterson Stereo LP recorded very weirdly. Great content, very weird imaging.

Drummer left, except during drum solos moved center. Bass right except solos moved center; Piano highs to lows are spread/move left to right.

Strange mic placement, too close to piano, combined with strange mixing decisions.

These kinds, terrific content, best not to listen from a position revealing imaging, I listen from a far corner. I didn't think to use my McIntosh Mode Mono position.

It's a terrific performance, I may look to see if a Mono version exists.
lewm
13,765 posts
 
Toward the end of the 60s and in the early 70s, stereo had taken over at least nearly completely if not totally.  For many of the premier rock groups, it was then popular to record in an exaggerated stereo effect. In some cases, the apparent source of the instruments and/or voices would be rapidly shifted from one side to the other.  You can hear a lot of that on the later Beatles albums, when they were in their LSD and Ravi Shankar phase.  The Who did it too on DSOTM.  This studio engineering became part of the creative effort, for a while.  It's not a knock on stereo technology per se; the recording engineers were simply playing with their new toy in consultation with the recording artists.
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