Devores and Omegas - input please

@bjesien
@prof

wondering if the 0/96 has the same resonant frequency mentioned by bj when he had the 0/93 -- same 10 in driver employed in both... seems like just in a bigger box used in 0/96 to gain a few more db of efficiency

i do like good spatial characterization/imaging in my sound, so i am also a bit worried about the ’wall of sound’ comments

i am using the spatial audio m3 sapphire open baffles now... 93 db efficiency with 2x 15 in bass drivers each side and rated 4 ohms, so not best suited to lower powered tube amps, but the enormous cone surface area moves air unlike any of my (many many) prior speakers...

I experience more wall of sound than spatial 3D image.  They did move lots of air. That’s not easy to find when combined with all the attributes mentioned by Prof.

charles,

Yes, I think that people who hear something like the Devore O series as colored or too rich, departing from "neutral" are generally comparing them to the sound of more "neutral" speakers, not necessarily to real sounds. So they know what their music, say a voice or a sax track, sounds like through a more neutral speaker, and if a speaker departs it is colored.

Whereas clearly I’m talking about what things sound like in real life to me.

I have owned, and still own, plenty of quite accurate speakers - until recently I had Waveform monitors (very accurate) and I own Thiel and Joseph Audio, both of which are more in the accuracy camp. I love their sound! And there are some things each does that captures aspects of real life sounds. The Joseph speakers; a super grain-free unmechanical sound, but generally thinner than life. The Thiels, very even top to bottom, richer than the Josephs, a density and palpability that is life like more than most speakers. But beat by the Josephs for lack of grain and timbrel beauty. The Spendors I have (little S3/5s) recreate the organic roundness, softness and body - the "gestalt" - of human voices better than maybe anything I’ve owned (Harbeth being the competitor). But are softer than life for other things. The Devores aren’t as grain-free as the Josephs, nor as focused, punchy and palpable as the Thiels, but they reproduce the sense of size and richness that gets closer to the real thing in many instances, to my ear.

If someone is in to pure accuracy and specs, that can make life a bit easier in a way - the goal isn’t "sounding real" per se but simply accurately reproducing an input signal, where you can look at the linearity of measurements for confidence, and then the chips just fall where they may in terms of how each track will sound. Quite a number of people get along happily that way.

But if you go the route of seeking some comparison to live sounds, while it can be very rewarding, it’s also of course always going to be about compromise. No speaker I’ve heard gets every aspect right, and depending on where one is in terms of experience, what one speaker gets right will turn your crank. Some people may have started with the boxless transparency and realism of quads and later realized they were missing the density and dynamics of real life sounds and then went on a trajectory that led them to horn speakers. Others may have started with horn speakers, and then maybe felt they could hear mechanical colorations that they later found absent in panel speakers, and went in the opposite direction. So two people may hear a speaker and seize on it’s different qualities. I may hear a horn speaker and immediately think it sounds more live; someone dedicated to electrostatics may immediately hear it as more boxy and artificial.

bjesien
That was a very interesting post, thank you.

I’ve seen a number of people say they think something is a bit amiss in the crossover region in the Devore O speakers, though it seems to be more particular to the O/93 from what I can tell.


I’m sure you’ve seen the Stereophile measurements for the O93 added years after the reviews:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o93-loudspeaker-measurements

Note this part:

• last September, I received an e-mail from Herb Reichert: "I am listening to the DeVore O/93s, and every time I listen I feel there is something amiss in the presence region, like a narrow-band suckout."

The first thing that struck me about that was: WHY didn’t Herb ever mention that in his two pieces about listening to the 093? You’d think that would be worth mentioning!

Anyway, JA didn’t find the smoking gun in terms of detecting that phenomenon.


As for me, what I found is that both the O93 and O96 required at least an 8 foot listening distance to cohere. When I tried to listen closer, like I do at home, I could start to hear the sound sort of split apart a bit, presumably around the crossover region. And when I read the Stereophile comment above I wondered if this was in play given Herb has a notoriously teeny listening room. If Herb’s situation puts him too close to the O93s his observation wouldn’t be surprise me. And this is one reason I wish every speaker review would mention the set up distance from speaker to reviewer. That would help a lot in terms of understanding a speaker’s behavior in nearer-field vs farther.

But what’s interesting about your remarks is that you aren’t referencing a discontinuity or suck out, but rather an addition of an artifact. I’m presuming you mean some sort of texture, or roughness, or brightness that becomes unpleasant?

Does it only APPEAR once you reach 80db? (Hence maybe some break up mode?) Or is it always present in the sound and simply becomes unbearable once you get that loud?

I can’t say I detected this in any of my auditions of the O93 or O96, and I’m pretty sensitive to that stuff. On the other hand for most of the audition I was probably playing them at 75 db or so, which is about as loud as I’m comfortable with for longer sessions. I did crank them louder for some funk and rock to walk around the room and listen how they sound (I tend to crank my speakers louder when I’m out of the room, listening doing other things). But didn’t note a problem.

@prof, 
Really astute insight and perspective.  You're right of course,  there are no perfect speakers and listeners determine what combination of  strengths and flaws they find to be the most tolerable compromise.  After many  years of attending live jazz venues (Many small and intimate environments, often without stage  microphones  ) speakers that "thin"  the sound of instruments and sound lean  are out for me.  Razor sharp pin point imaging does not make up for this (In my view) glaring error. 
Charles