I don't care. My Quad ESL57 loudspeakers are not for sale.
If you don't have a wide sweet spot, are you really an audiophile?
Hi, it’s me, professional audio troll. I’ve been thinking about something as my new home listening room comes together:
The glory of having a wide sweet spot.
We focus far too much on the dentist chair type of listener experience. A sound which is truly superb only in one location. Then we try to optimize everything exactly in that virtual shoebox we keep our heads in. How many of us look for and optimize our listening experience to have a wide sweet spot instead?
I am reminded of listening to the Magico S1 Mk II speakers. While not flawless one thing they do exceptionally well is, in a good room, provide a very good, stable stereo image across almost any reasonable listening location. Revel’s also do this. There’s no sudden feeling of the image clicking when you are exactly equidistant from the two speakers. The image is good and very stable. Even directly in front of one speaker you can still get a sense of what is in the center and opposite sides. You don’t really notice a loss of focus when off axis like you can in so many setups.
Compare and contrast this with the opposite extreme, Sanders' ESL’s, which are OK off axis but when you are sitting in the right spot you suddenly feel like you are wearing headphones. The situation is very binary. You are either in the sweet spot or you are not.
From now on I’m declaring that I’m going all-in on wide-sweet spot listening. Being able to relax on one side of the couch or another, or meander around the house while enjoying great sounding music is a luxury we should all attempt to recreate.
The glory of having a wide sweet spot.
We focus far too much on the dentist chair type of listener experience. A sound which is truly superb only in one location. Then we try to optimize everything exactly in that virtual shoebox we keep our heads in. How many of us look for and optimize our listening experience to have a wide sweet spot instead?
I am reminded of listening to the Magico S1 Mk II speakers. While not flawless one thing they do exceptionally well is, in a good room, provide a very good, stable stereo image across almost any reasonable listening location. Revel’s also do this. There’s no sudden feeling of the image clicking when you are exactly equidistant from the two speakers. The image is good and very stable. Even directly in front of one speaker you can still get a sense of what is in the center and opposite sides. You don’t really notice a loss of focus when off axis like you can in so many setups.
Compare and contrast this with the opposite extreme, Sanders' ESL’s, which are OK off axis but when you are sitting in the right spot you suddenly feel like you are wearing headphones. The situation is very binary. You are either in the sweet spot or you are not.
From now on I’m declaring that I’m going all-in on wide-sweet spot listening. Being able to relax on one side of the couch or another, or meander around the house while enjoying great sounding music is a luxury we should all attempt to recreate.
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- 233 posts total
@audiokinesis /Duke -- What I’m going to suggest is sometimes called "time-intensity trading", as the off-centerline listening locations which have a later arrival from one speaker compensate by having greater intensity (loudness) from that speaker. JBL aimed similarly with their DD55000 Everest's (DD for "Defined Directivity"):
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/everest.htm The rationale behind this acoustic concept, to my mind, would seem less realized if it didn't entail an appreciation of a sonic correlation as perceived in the seated sweet spot, apart from offering a wider listening area to move within. Image specificity in the extreme doesn't exist in a live acoustic performance, and yet it's a devoured trait in audiophilia. To me at least the predominant takeaway in the debate about a narrow vs. wider spot is honing in on the "sweet spot" between these two dispersive extremes that most closely emulates the perceived impression of a live acoustic presentation, and this also involves for the listener to be able to move from side to side, as one would at a live performance, without seeing the sonic "image" tilt severely. |
Image specificity in the extreme doesn’t exist in a live acoustic performance, and yet it’s a devoured trait in audiophilia.Very important observation....Thanks.... Which observation make me able to say that imaging is important soundwise but LESS difficult to obtain than natural timbre perception in an acoustic settings which perception and experience are the benchmark test of not only sound perception in audio but also of musical perception.... Audio is important but music surpass it, including it .... Electronic is important but acoustic surpass it making it shine or not.... It is MY experience for sure....But the experience of any musician i suppose.... Then the main central concept is no much mainly the "sweet spot" but more the dynamical "envelope " of the sound... One concept is more deep and englobe the other in a SMALL room and this subordination is understood well by any small room acoustic experiments which demonstrate that it is more difficult and ask for more fine tuning of the parameters controls to recreate the timbre dynamical envelope over some imaging .... If this is true,we could begin to understand WHY we never listen to speakers ONLY in a small room, but to the room itself united with the speakers... If this is true we could begin to understand why the room could be conceptualize not like a passive set of walls but like an ACTIVATED and ACTIVE participant filled with variable potential pressures zones able to participate and recreate the timbre perception.... «There exist a hierarchy of concepts and of their function. It means that my ass is not less important than my head but serves it, not the opposite»-Groucho Marx «Is it true for the hierarchy of angels too?»-Harpo Marx «You bet!»-Chico Marx «Is this means that economy is the ass and politic the head?»-Gummo Marx «Are you a communist?»-Zeppo Marx |
I once went to look at the Martin Logan Speakers. Don't remember the model. it was in the '90's I believe. The store attendant said they weren't set up properly. I don't know if that was true or not. I know this. Moving my head over 8-10 inches either side, lost the sweet spot. Standing up? Fugetaboutit! Sounded good as long as I sat completely still. Nah, Not for me. |
Great discussion. I wonder if anyone can focus on bass. With Magen pan 1.7 planar speakers I’ve lately focused on bass. Since adding two REL subs I’ve realized how much perception of image and air in a recording comes from the air pressure described in this thread. And since very low bass is omnidirectional, I think it’s more critical to my enjoyment of the system. Also even more critical is bass at lower listening levels. The loudness control. If you have powerful bass at low volumes it’s pretty compelling. I used to have to play everything much louder to get satisfying sound. Now it’s just tweaking the subs a bit. Er, well quite a bit since matching the subs isn’t easy. |
- 233 posts total