Synergistic calls out Audioholics

perkri

Heres the thing, the products are real, they actually exist. You can hold them, touch them and listen to them. If they don’t work, you can return them.

Homeopathic pills are real, they actually exist. You can hold them, touch them and swallow them. 


Astrologers are real.  You can meet them, touch them (if they let you!), talk to them.  They'll explain to you how the stars guide your fortunes.


The question is: are the CLAIMS made about those phenomena real?

There is no objective evidence for those claims (and plenty against them), yet countless people think they work.   Yet you reasoned that a product that doesn't do what it claims wouldn't maintain business.

Are you able to see the point yet, as to why the basic logic of your inference was somewhat naive?

@prof 

If you were provided with a full spec sheet of any/all products, would you be able to translate those specs into something meaningful? Something you could interpret and explain to someone else that “these should sound like this because of that..”

Every detail and tech tidbit outlined: inductance, capacitance, resistance, magnetic fields generated/isolated, shielding from EMI, noise filtration, a 1khz sine wave in, same wave measured at the other end. And measured at multiple lengths to show what, if any decay or distortion of the signal occurs. How well is that signal protected by shielding so nothing effects the signal?

somehow, I think not.

And no, your analogy is completely without merit.

If it sounds better, then it works.

Super simple.

Like I said, and I think you have actually proven my point .

I have a problem with narrow minded, closed minded ignorance.

If you were provided with a full spec sheet of any/all products, would you be able to translate those specs into something meaningful? Something you could interpret and explain to someone else that “these should sound like this because of that..”

If a product is claimed to have altered an audio signal to an audible degree, there should be measurable differences in the audio signal with and without the product in use. It makes sense then to ask a claimant to show measurable differences in an audio signal, for frequency response, distortion, whatever, to a degree that suggests it’s audibility. It would be even better if it was established as audible under blinded conditions.

And no, your analogy is completely without merit.

Only because you don’t seem to understand the point.

If it sounds better, then it works.

Which is like saying "If I took a homeopathic pill and felt better, it works!"

Or: If a psychic did a reading on me and I left believing she had some hits, then she was using real psychic powers!"

Do you understand the role of controlling for variables?

That you felt better after a homeopathic pill does not automatically entail the pill caused it. You may have gotten better anyway without the pill, or your belief in homeopathy may have led you to happily believe you are cured when you are not (very common in homeopathy, not to mention in faith healing as well). And it does not establish that homeopathy works on the principles it says it works.

Same with psychic powers. The fact you THINK it "worked" may be due to your own naivety about how psychics use standard "cold reading" techniques. And in how you managed to ignore the "misses" in their guesses. It’s standard fair yet people believe in the psychic power all the time.

In other words: BELIEVING something works, THINKING it "happened" doesn’t necessarily mean it works or happened. Our minds are very good at imagining things. Some people think they have been visited and probed by aliens. You don’t think you could imagine a little less upper midrange glare in your system with a new cable?
But I realize none of this will be hitting home if you are one who believes in the primacy and Ultimate Reliability of your subjective impressions, and nothing can refute them.

I have a problem with narrow minded, closed minded ignorance.

I know the feeling. Are you open minded to measurements being used to determine if a product "works" or not? Even if you think you hear it working?

Are you open minded to measurements being used to determine if a product "works" or not? Even if you think you hear it working?

Your logic is so simplistic....

In audio like in acoustic for example, the point about measures of different parameters is ALWAYS their possible CORRELATION with human perception...It is a complex dialogue between them, a constant round trip between the 2....

Using measures in a direct and gross way to discredit human perception is not science it is crusader skeptic ideology....Pseudo science...

You are like the astrologer charlatan that claim that the planet decide for the people....For you some set of measures replace completely human free perceptive experience and decide his fate once and for all... You are like the astrologer you crusade against my friend.... Like all fanatics of opposite side ressemble each other....



You agenda is childish and you treat all people here like gullible childs...Your pseudo is well choosen "prof"....

You cannot ALWAYS use measurement to prove in a so direct manner that a product work or not...For some product measures are crux of the matter, for example in electronic design... But equating measurable parameters in audio with good sound experience is not ALWAYS possible... It is only common sense...All designer use also their ears....This is called a CORRELATION between the ears and the designed artefact...

If you are a scientist i am elf....

You are a techno fad closed mind....





By the way i never bought "tweaks" nor costly cables and i have no horses in this almost useless thread contest....I never advise people to buy anything only to be creative....

The war between "subjectivist" and "objectivist" in audio has his basis on a complete misunderstanding and misuse of science....

The reason is very simple: audio science is founded on a continuous experimental CORRELATION between some choosen objective parameters and human perception, and NOT on the replacement of human perception by some physical parameters once and for all....