Synergistic calls out Audioholics


Curious to see what Gene does...

https://youtu.be/PKLuLfj2iC4


perkri

And if you’ve ever been involved in blind testing






You blind test idea is completely ridiculous the way you wanted to use it in your audio agenda...

I lived through many hundreds incremental changes in my 2 years full time installation of embeddings controls, in the mechanical electrical and especially acoustical dimensions...


You want to reduce any claim of improvement to a singular borderline change that you could debunk one at a time?

Sorry but i dont needed your blind test fallacy in my audio journey...

Like i already said blind test is a serious STATISTICAL methodology in science not a tool for the disciple of the James Randy sunday club...



There are 2 falsehoods i see percolating in the audio industry...

---One is a sin by OMISSION by the electronic design marketing companies when they suggest: buy our own electronic design and your audiophile experience is assured and warrented...

This is half truth nevermind the real S.Q. value of the product because audiophile experience is ALSO mostly tributary of the controls of many psycho acoustical factors outside the scope of the electronic design of any piece of electronic gear speakers included....

---The other sin is by FALSIFICATION of science by abuse of some aspect of technology... Some tried to convince people that audiophile experience is reducible ONCE AND FOR ALL to the measures of some known chosen parameters... This is completely false because audiophile experience is generally tributary of many psychoacoustical factors outside of the scope of these selected chosen parameters...





I know what i speak about i designed my own listening experiments for 2 years without buying any upgrades nor any tweaks but using peanuts cost materials and products to act on some aspect of these complex psychoacoustical factors...With complete success...I even devised on psychoacoustic principle my own mechanical equalizer inspired by Helmholtz...Peanuts costs....




Psychoacoustic is a science the most important one for audio...

Dr. Floyd Toole noted:

Technical measurements are demonstrably precise, repeatable events. Hearing perception is not. Obviously, the perceived event is definitive – if it does not sound good, it isn’t good. The task is to correlate what we measure with what we perceive – This is psychoacoustics.



I will add that generally this CORRELATION PROCESS cannot be abolished by a once and for all set of measures in engineering because it will be the erasing of psychoacoustical science itself.....Is it not saimple to understand especially for a "prof" ?


😁😊




I will let speak 2 acousticians for me here:

« Since the primary purpose of our music and movie systems is our own entertainment in accurately reproducing the “real” event, ultimately it is our perceptions that become our point of reference. Accuracy is thus defined by our perception of the reproduction of the event, and a microphone can’t tell us that. Sure, the microphone has it’s uses; measuring a room’s response can help integrate and optimize the low-frequency response, at least to a point. While the quality of the low-frequency response is certainly important to our perception of accuracy, it is not all that matters. These measurements will not tell us anything about how the speakers present the soundstage. We will have no clues toward the spaciousness of the soundscape. Capturing that information would require far more sophisticated measurements and a lot more knowledge than the average consumer has access to. In fact, when Dr. Floyd Toole reviewed this article, he summed up the issue with typical consumer room measurements, which use a single Omni-directional microphone and an FFT analyzer as “dumb” relative to human hearing. It lacks the sophisticated signal processing to detect sound and provide us with information that our ears can quickly accommodate. The purpose of this article is not to be damning of measurements, because they have their place, and they can be fun and helpful. However, there is also no denying that there has become an over-reliance on the perceived objectivity of measurements and a diminished reliance on what our own ears tell us about the accuracy of our system. This shift is to the detriment of good sound. Many consumers would be far better served spending time training their ears as to what good sound is. Learning to hear what different room reverberation times sound like, what specific changes in tone sound like, or experiencing the “real” event first hand. How can we know what a trumpet is supposed to sound like if we have never heard one live and unaided by electronic amplification? The key takeaway here should be that a flat in-room response is not a guarantee of good sound; this is not necessarily a desirable trait, and if this is achieved based solely on in-room measurements without regard for many other important factors in good sound reproduction, is more likely to lead to a bad sounding system.»

https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/accurate-microphone-or-ears




 A final remark about the reason why some people insult you here:

Some are tired of your arrogant pretense and the way you treat adults here like children....
I myself propose arguments not insults  and i will wait for answers...

But to this day save for youre own appropriation of science authority i dont see any serious thinking....Your agenda is classical skeptic sunday class for children....You divided falsely the crowds here in 2 gangs: subjectivist ignorant audiophiles and yourself, enlightened "objectivist" spirits....

This fabricated division has nothing to do with science nor with sound thinking and common sense....
I would like to step away from audio for a moment to address something else raised here. Any parents or grandparents please DO NOT use teething necklaces they have been labeled dangerous by the FDA as children have died from strangulation and choking using these things. There is also absolutely no evidence to suggest they do anything. This has nothing to do with one side or the other in these silly arguments over audio reproduction this is a real and serious issue.
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/fda-warns-against-use-teething-necklaces-b...
So scientists don’t understand what sound is, just as they don’t understand what electricity is. This obviously follows from this article. Those who are sure that everything can be measured, and everything immeasurable is just snake oil should read the article carefully.


Putting aside that rather rash conclusion...

...this speaks to a conundrum that I never see answered once people start resorting to the "things that can’t be measured" defense of tweak products and other gear.

If we are talking about unmeasurable phenomena....how did any company in question identify and solve the problem in the first place?Dreams? Communal trance? Consulting oracles?

The typical audiophile gear, cables included, come with a technical story from the manufacturer. "Here’s a technical problem that can undermine the performance of X item; Here’s how we solve that problem." And you are told about "skin effect," "radiation," "electrical interference," "dielectrics" "active shielding" and on and on. In other words, all type of phenomena that we know through being able to detect with instruments and measure.
Then they lay out some claim about how they have technically addressed the problem.

But then if there is any skepticism of the claim, you get fall backs to "Well, not everything is measurable you know! Stop looking to measurements!"

Well, HOW did the manufacturer know it was the specific technical problem in the first place, if he never could identify and detect it by measuring it? Pure conjecture and imagination? SR for instance talks about how you will hear a significant increase in frequency linearity with one of their cables. That would be measurable, right? Can we not presume they measured these differences?    If you don’t think so, how in the world would they have determined it was an increase in frequency linearity that was causing the perception in the first place?


You can’t have it both ways: claim to identify a technical problem by appeal to measurable phenomena, claim to solve the problem, but then have people throw up their hands on demands for measurements "hey, this stuff can’t be measured!"


Can anyone appealing to the "don’t ask for measurements, this stuff can’t be measured" stuff answer this conundrum?




...this speaks to a conundrum that I never see answered once people start resorting to the "things that can’t be measured" defense of tweak products and other gear.
You just distorted here the fundamental audio problem which is related to psychoacoustic....

It is not that they are things that cannot be measured .... it is the fact that in psychoacoustic the CORRELATION PROCESS between measures parameters and listening experiments cannot be replaced by ONLY MEASURES...The correlation process between measures and listening is an ONGOING process... This is called science....


Are you able to think?


You can’t have it both ways: claim to identify a technical problem by appeal to measurable phenomena, claim to solve the problem, but then have people throw up their hands on demands for measurements "hey, this stuff can’t be measured!"
You just have reduced here for the benefit of your own warring agenda against " ignorant audiophiles" the complex psychoacoustical chain of events and experiments to a false alternative...

Audio experience must be correlated to measuring process BUT CANNOT be reduced to it....

Quit binary propaganda and think....

IT is ridiculous to be against measurements and ridiculous to claim that audio experience and experiments must be and can be reducible to ONLY measurements...Listening experiments are ESSENTIAL ALSO....


PSYCHOACOUSTIC is the main science in audio ......Awake yourself before pretending awaking others...