2. cables
  3. 166070-159469

What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?

Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev
anton_stepichev OP
150 posts
 
@mahgister
what have you read of Essien to this day? Which articles?

I am afraid, nothing except the BITS. Still have no time to reed them thoroughly.

I think that perhaps in Essien experiences with string internal variable force of tension is the beginning of an answer.... If pitch is not reducible to frequency because of this mechanical invariant linked to tension perhaps a string like a cable react differently affecting the sound result when the orientation of his constituants fiber are twisted in one direction or the other....

I haven't read about his string experiences yet, but I have my own personal experience on the subject. I was restoring an old broken violin ten years ago, doing this to get an idea of the direction of the parts of musical instruments. Here is the article, but unfortunately it is not translated. After the violin was restored, I experimented with various violin accessories, including different strings.

The most surprising discovery then turned out to be that the metal string E has not only a conventionally "electric" directivity, like all other wires, but also a "mechanical" one! The violin sounds more precise and reach when the beginning of the string is on the side of the pegs. At the same time, the advantages and disadvantages of the sound of the string could be evaluated both by playing the violin and using the string as a wire.

I had one Chinese string with a disgusting, rough sound, its screaming was very noticeable in both electric and acoustic variants, especially live right on the violin. Seems everything around us is connected in some cunning way.

glupson
7,842 posts
 
"But thanks to Ted Denney we have what it sounds like."

Thank me, too. I know what it sounds like. I tried it. Never sold it so maybe a little less of a conflict of interest than people who make living from selling cables.
dletch2
455 posts
 
To understand speech and music and the principle of the auditory system, we must return to those primitive aspects of music and speech production in nature to determine and isolate mechanical features that underlie each auditory sensation. Any other procedure, by the terms of the body-image theory of sound, is an illusion. They have not worked, they do not work, and will never work.



A very weak conclusion, not at all supported by evidence in the paper which is mainly just a bunch of ramblings to support statements/conclusions attributed in general and specifically that are not even factual. I am guessing they were desperate for papers for the 2nd International Conference on Acoustics in Nigeria. Beautiful country, nice people, not well known for academic regour (note author is listed as independent researcher and no indication of peer review, which, is not uncommon at these conferences.) 


I must admire his conclusion which does not even recognize that he could be wrong, which, without establishing any evolutionary influence for music negates his conclusion.  Frankly, the whole work basically implies that everyone has a super simplistic view when pretty obviously we understand there are complex mechanisms right from physical detection up to interpretation. The whole thing is a mess. I am with Mapman, I am sorry I wasted any time reading it.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,847 posts
 
The most surprising discovery then turned out to be that the metal string E has not only a conventionally "electric" directivity, like all other wires, but also a "mechanical" one! The violin sounds more precise and reach when the beginning of the string is on the side of the pegs. At the same time, the advantages and disadvantages of the sound of the string could be evaluated both by playing the violin and using the string as a wire.
Very interesting...

 Then Essien experiments are pertinent to your subject matter indeed...It talk about this mechanical internal  tension in the string... But the book is more about psychoacoustic fundamentals deriving from this  than about wire...But there is a link for me... I will have  the book in the next days...

 One thing is certain the book is non sense or very very important...

 I order it on the spot because i think it is an important book...
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,847 posts
 
The whole thing is a mess. I am with Mapman, I am sorry I wasted any time reading it.

All your post is an opinion like mapman WITHOUT any reading or analysis of the book...

Then...

For mapman it was " innate knowledge ", i guess and i know that for you your opinion comes from "perfect" scientific formation coming with your education and works in audio...It is easy to spot reading your posts you are not like me an amateur...

Then i will respect your opinion....not the opinion of mapman....

But i will read the book.....

A very weak conclusion, not at all supported by evidence in the paper
By the way the book is 512 pages.... The author has obtained his doctorate at the Sorbonne in acoustic for a work and experiments that takes him decades because he was innovative so much in an Unorthodox direction to explain hearing process and sound and perhaps he is wrong but i will be surprized if he was a complete idiot....

Then refrain your judgement and wait for arguments...Or perhaps like mapman you enjoy innate knowledge and not only experience in the audio working field ?

That will be interesting book because it is in the center spot of acoustic experience...

By the way it is not USUAL to produce a doctorate at the Sorbonne or in any known institution contesting in an original way centuries of reasearch in acoustic, is it not?

Then for this study , no innate knowledge or experience in audio will replace reading it....

 I am guessing they were desperate for papers for the 2nd International Conference on Acoustics in Nigeria. Beautiful country, nice people, not well known for academic regour (note author is listed as independent researcher and no indication of peer review, which, is not uncommon at these conferences.)
This is only prejudices and his doctorate is in acoustic from Sorbonne... even if it is not the center of the world of acoustic research they dont give a doctorate to a complete idiot....

I will pass your prejudices and read the book...

 I am interested by  the links between phonology/phonetics, music, and acoustic, the book adress all that...  
More to discover