2. music
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Music is sound, sound can be music

It was hard to make a title that fit what I wanted to talk about. Reading the thread about the deleted Hip-hop/Rap thread was an interesting window on some of the mindset here (some of which was unfortunate and depressing too but that's the world we live in....). What struck me was the attitude that if it's not played on a traditional instrument it's not music, or it just "sucks" in some way.

First, many instruments today, lots of brass ones especially or guitars didn't exist until the last 100-200 years. Do they not make music?

But you have to learn to use it skillfully, so I read. Knowing how to read and write music surely qualifies one yes? Talented even, if your can write complex pieces?

Ok, then. 25 years ago I worked with early digital audio systems using sequencers and MIDI. My partner graduated with honors from Berklee college of music and was a composer. He wrote some amazing work without touching anything more than a mouse and keyboard. Was it music?

10 years later I worked with another person who did incredible work in sound collage and electronic music. They did use a controller that is essentially a piano keyboard but it only sends note data to the system. She could play wonderfully on a real piano but often used non-linear editing and manipulation to produce innovative soundscapes. Was it music?

There are other examples where people do all sorts of experimental things with sound and not a single traditional instrument is ever used. Is it art?

My point here is if you don't like something that's fine. It doesn't make you a bad, stupid, or ignorant person. Neither are you those things if you don't understand why people create things or how they choose to do it. Of course, you are free to say what you like, that's your right. But don't be surprised when you are considered ignorant and intolerant when all you have to say is negative and derogatory remarks.

Life is too short to spend energy on things you don't like. Move on past and participate in the things you enjoy and let others enjoy theirs. Or maybe open you mind and give something more than a cursory glance if curiosity gets you, explore, read, listen and learn. You may decide it really isn't for you, but then again you might.
jet88
mglik
908 posts
 
I have been enjoying Mozart in the Jungle on Amazon Prime.
A very entertaining series centered around symphonic music.
It is somewhat cliche, but a lovely example of “sound as music”.
While driving over a bridge, Rodrigo rolls down the window to hear the city sounds that inspire his compositions and musical sensibilities. Are the city sounds music? I would say yes!
All in the perspective.
And speaking of Rap, I am the OP of those first three recent removed Rap threads. Too bad this forum could not have a civilized discussion.
Just being introductory in my exposure to Rap, I have discovered some of what I was looking for: Rap masterpieces. I already knew from Disney+, Hamilton was truly a Rap masterpiece.
I wanted to find Rap LPs that will sound great on my TT rig.
Unfortunately, the Hamilton Cost $128. But I did buy the CD.
The other CD I bought was Kendrick Lemar’s To Pimp a Butterfly.
I just bought the LP. Wow, I can’t wait to hear it of the rig! It is very sophisticated and a true masterpiece of the MC and the DJ.
That is the spoken word with incredible electronic music “sound”.
IMO, it is impossible not to marvel at the complex, highly musical structure combined with a dynamic presentation of the spoken word. I was turned on to Kendrick Lemar by a Forum member saying that his son and his friends, all students at Juilliard, were big fans of Kendrick. Can anyone recommend another Rap artist as complex and interesting as Kendrick?
hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,974 posts
 
The relativism is not avoidable, but it need not be a lowering of standards. All absolutes are conventionally described, defined, and either hewed to or overturned.
frogman
7,441 posts
 
Of course it’s avoidable; it’s a choice we make.  We all set standards for ourselves; I do, anyway. There in lies the reason you and I will disagree on this point. I’m ok with that.
tablejockey
3,901 posts
 
Rap is the genre you just can't discuss in a thread. It's tied with too many 
social issues which are HOT buttons now. Compels many to project
their inner whatever you want to call it, then a thread goes south QUICK!

Perhaps corny,  the message however is clearer than ever....
https://vimeo.com/252765355

I've ignored it since the 80's and always will,  but the masses have spoken- Rap and it's derivatives are  here to stay.

'
jet88 OP
62 posts
 
Thanks everyone for all the replies. There's a lot of good thought and dialogue here.

@frogman  I think it is you that missed the point. I assert this by you closing statement:

 "So, let’s see, those who clamor for open mindedness and respect for all are themselves incapable of allowing others to hold a different personal opinion by which they define an art genre? Got it."

 I made it quite clear that others can have their own opinions. I also made it clear that how you express yourself is how you will be judged by others. Don't like it because you think it's not music for whatever reasons? Fine. You can even say why just as you did in a reasonable, respectful manner. It's the snide remarks and thinly veiled racism I have issues with that I saw. In those cases, people still have the right to speak but I don't have to listen to them. That doesn't make me incapable of allowing others to have a different opinion, it makes me incapable of listening to ignorance and hatred.

Lastly, I encouraged people to give different things a fair chance before deciding they don't like it. And if they did decide they don't, that it was perfectly ok.
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