Upscale Audio and Primaluna

Well, as far as time on the tubes, I changed my last set out when the hour meter on my projector, that I installed and turned on at the same time that I installed the 75SE, hit 3750 hours. Since there's no hour meter on the 75, 4500hrs was my estimate, since I listen to plenty of music without theater. Could have been more. The guys at Audio Research suggested it was time to swap 'em, so I called Upscale for some new ones.

My speakers are 97db efficient, and the Amp only dives the highs/mids, so if I see 5 watts on the needles it's LOUD.

In other words, the tubes are never stressed.

I run a set of 6H30DR true Super Tubes for twice that, so they'll get swapped to new 6H30DR's when the 150's get up there again. The DR's have a 10K hour rating from what I read. I swap the DR's in my preamp at the same time. No strange noises, and the big tubes never stray out of bias.

If you guys think I'm way out out line, I'm listening... 

I've always replaced output tubes at the 2000-2500 hour mark. Could they go longer? Sure. But that's only if you are willing to live with the degradation in sound, because you will surely notice the improvement when you replace them. So it's a matter of how frugal you are vs how important the sound is to you. Tubes are just like us human beings. They start "dying" from the minute they start "living". And also just like us, the difference is subtle over time that we hardly notice it. But if you woke up tomorrow and were 20 again, I think you'd know.

I think you are fine.  If you purchased a good set of tubes from Upscale that is wonderful.  My experience was different.  They said the tubes were matched and within Audio Research specs.  They weren't and it cost me over $3,000 to repair.  

I've purchased pre-amp tubes and phono stage matched tubes from Upscale and they were fine.  Wouldn't have a problem doing that again.  apologies if I gave the impression I wouldn't ever.  I'll just be more careful with power amp tubes.  That could be/was a costly mistake if they fair.  

I'm sure Upscale would have replaced the faulty tube, but they probably wouldn't have covered the repair costs of the amp.  Audio Research would.  But the tubes are probably twice as expensive.  But, AR does test and match each tube, and that does take time and expense to do that.

Also, I appreciate Kevin's response above.  It was well written and I really appreciate him stepping up with a response.  The Prima vs Audio Research REF 6 was an actual event that a good buddy of mine experienced.  I didn't appreciate the sales pitch where he was flatly told the prima was better.  That was crap and was unnecessary.  The Prima is a fine pre-amp for the money.  The REF 6 way more expensive and not in the class or range of the Prima.  Telling a potential buyer that solves the issue. 

That is like a mid range car vs a high end supercar.  Not even a fair comparison and who in their right mind would even compare the two?  Well, the rude people on the old top gear show maybe.  They compared a Camaro with a top of the line Mercedes AMG.  Stupid comparison.  not even in the same class or price range.  But, they really didn't like the USA, so there you are.

So, why compare a REF 6 with a Prima?  apples to apples would be better.  I've dealt with many fine dealers.  I've never done business with dealers that do that.  comparing a unit that is in the same price range or quality of a Prima?  I have no problem with that.  As a matter of fact, that is exactly what should be done.

enjoy

@fsonicsmith Thank you for your kind words and for reading my business right. I like selling big-ticket items too of course but spent my teenage years with my nose pressed up against the glass windows of stereo stores longing to get the best I could with not a lot of money. I get that.

The Ah! Tjoeb was a $549 bargain made in Holland. It weighed what it should. It was a life-changing product for me after making so many people happy.

The Chinook SE MKII with upgraded NOS tubes is $2799, and weighs as much or more than $5k preamps I can mention, and almost as much as a popular $9k preamp. Why then isn’t the Chinook $5k? Because EveAnna Manley said so. The prices charged by high-end audio manufacturers are sometimes arbitrary. If anyone wants a certain name and is willing to pay it that’s cool with me. I just tell it like it is.

The majority of companies do a great job with owners that really care. But no other industry would swallow the B.S. that gets sold here. There are more former nuclear submarine engineers with top-secret clearance working in audio than any other business. My Vice President Craig actually has that clearance and we laugh about coming out with some magic box. I’ve been asked to lend my name to projects that would be money-makers but were obvious snake oil so I declined. I would love to write a book. In 45 years in this industry, I’ve seen it all.

I have a little more insight into how stuff is made than most because I have samples traded in all the time. I love audio and understanding how things work. I take products apart and look up part numbers and their costs with my service tech who is also a pro audio circuit designer. Coming from pro audio he just shakes his head and laughs at some of the stuff we see. It would never fly in that business. Musicians are or often broke...and cheap.

I see "new upgraded" models with higher price tags using cheaper volume chips. I see an amp with two driver tubes and two gain tubes being replaced by a "new upgraded" model with a  higher price tag also with cheaper chips plus the elimination of driver tubes that get replaced with an FET. Or companies that tell you their cathode bias amp is auto bias. One of them actually changed their website description to what is technically correct after I pointed out to them it was misleading. Then months later, they changed it back to auto-bias.

Regardless, the vast majority of companies do a great job with wonderful owners that care about making a great product.

I’m tasked with explaining how the brands that I represent are made and work. Whether we retail or import/distribute them.

In every PrimaLuna video we produce, I talk about parts and engineering. Weight is a factor that I emphasize more with preamps because they can be a profit center for manufacturers. Much like soft drinks to a restaurant. As you said, parts quality is more important, which is why I show them and describe them in detail. I’m very proud of that. You guys have no idea what a freak Herman is about component selection. Part for part, I can compare PL to any brand at its price or double its price.

The late great Art Dudley said it best: "I’ve never seen a better-built amp. ... Someone made this as if it mattered."

To your point on the PrimaLuna preamp sound, second harmonics are certainly the way to go, which is why people (including me) love tubes.

But the real glory comes from the Holy Trinity for tube preamp design: Dual-mono, tube rectification, point-to-point wiring.

I’ve called Upscale Audio a few times but have yet to buy anything from them. I never felt pressured to buy anything from them, let alone a Primaluna product. I think a lot depends on who you talk to on a given day. For example, when I was looking for a headphone amp, Kevin put me in touch with one of his headphone amp experts. We exchanged a couple of text messages, but as soon as I brought up another amp that I was considering (Quicksilver headphone amp), the guy disappeared. Simply stopped responding to my messages.

I called them another time to get advice on streamers. Totally opposite experience. The guy was courteous, responded to all my questions, and followed up with another call.

Based on my experience, and mine alone, I think that because they’re so busy, they put a higher premium on their time. So while I never felt pressured or shortchanged, I never got the same level of interest or the willingness to get to know me as a potential long term customer. Contrast this to a few other dealers I’ve talked to, e.g. Wolf Audio, John Ruttan, Reno Hifi, etc. They came across as folks who had a genuine interest in getting to know me, my current system, and my desired outcome. It almost felt like having a conversation with a good friend who is genuinely interested in building a long term relationship with you. Upscale Audio, while courteous and helpful, simply didn't give me the same level of attention. Of course, YMMV.