Raven Blackhawk LE... am I going to be disappointed?

@millercarbon I worked out the math which said I didn’t have enough power. But what I also learned was that there is a much wider range of possibilities than you would accept. There are many reviewers and forum folks have found a lot of success with speakers below 93 or 95 or higher with modest wattage amps which are well designed. You might say they haven't seen the light or don't know how to listen. That doesn't pass the smell test for me.

What I’ve come to learn is that the path you proselytize for -- high sensitivity speakers driven with efficiency by lower or moderate watt amplifiers -- is indeed a very good way to go. But it’s not the only way. And once one is past a certain range of mismatch, synergy wise, a lot of other factors can make for a happy marriage. And then there are my ears -- which have found that a number of lower db speakers work with a number of modest watt amps.

@hilde45 +1

And then there are my ears -- which have found that a number of lower db speakers work with a number of modest watt amps.

Great post!

In the end, we buy what makes sense to us in that given moment, the gear we are able to audition, and our listening preferences. For me, it is a learning process which I suspect will never end -- i.e. I will never be a ’know it all’ believing in ’absolute’ truths like so many on this website. And, frankly, I hope I never become like that.

The point of this hobby is to experiment, learn from your mistakes, admit your mistakes, and most importantly make an emotional connection with the music regardless of the cost, medium, or topology. There never has been, and never will be, one type of speaker or any other equipment that will satisfy everyone.

Some of the posts remind me of the story of the oracle at Delphi and Socrates. I quote ...

"In each case, Socrates affirmed that he would rather be as he is, knowing that he knows nothing, than to be inflated by a false sense of his own great wisdom. Thus, he concludes, he truly is wiser than other men because he does not think he knows what he does not know."

So when you say it, works for you. When I say it, proselytizing. Right. Got it. Thanks.

@millercarbon
Sorry about the word "proselytizing." That word implies that a certain way of doing things is the only best way.

So, would you agree that high efficiency speakers are only one "best" way to go?
Or would you agree that moderate efficiency speakers can also be "best"?

I’m pretty sure you’ve spoke about the virtues of Raven, Tekton, and high efficiency in such complimentary terms that you’re pretty committed to it being best. Viz., 

Buying speakers and amps is so easy. Yet it is not so easy some audiophile can't make it darn near impossible. All you do is eliminate from consideration speakers less than 92dB sensitivity. I know nothing about your speakers, except for having heard the name Magic and knowing that means they are crazy expensive and have a well earned reputation for being hard to drive. So without looking I will guess they are somewhere down in the mid to high 80's. [Fact check: 87dB. Tol ya so!] Which in itself is low enough to all by itself be a problem. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-is-floyd-toole-saying-about-extra-amplifier-power-and-he...

It will take you a very, very long time listening to a lot of different stuff to realize this, but amplifier specs simply do not matter. Only one spec matters: speaker sensitivity. Good luck if you buy speakers with less than 92dB sensitivity. Good luck finding an amp. When you read all the problems people have matching speakers and amps first thing you should do is go look up the sensitivity of the speakers they have. Go. Look. You will see. Happens all the time. Guy just the other day took a pass on some very excellent easy to drive speakers, bought some 89dB when could have had 99dB, the ones he got will require TEN TIMES the amplifier power to play the same level.

Good luck with that. Really superb sounding 50 watt amps are all over the place, and are actually affordable. He needs 500 watts. All because he screwed up the one thing that matter about amps, and that is speaker sensitivity. Good luck.

So forget amplifier power. Do this one simple thing right, find speakers that sound good and are at least 92dB sensitivity you will have no problem whatsoever driving them with anything from 20 watts on up. So power ratings, forget em. Why I said they are meaningless. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-between-amps 

These are the kinds of things which are super reasonable and convincing but are they the only "best" way to go? Perhaps I’ve erred and there are other best ways to go and you've posted about those ways, too. But this seems like the idea you are convinced is best, and even the only really good way to go. Happy to hear what an equally good alternative is that does not involve speakers at 92 db and up that does not involve 500wpc

Well it seems like B is enjoying the journey including the various detours along the way so that is all that matters.

Yes as anyone with eyes and ears will learn over time there are many ways to skin the cat, each with their associated advantages and disadvantages.

Do note though that high efficiency alone does NOT, repeat NOT, assure optimum performance with any amp. It only means things are most likely to be loud enough with most any amp in most any room in peoples homes.

Reviews of high efficiency speakers with measurements have shown that high efficiency speakers are subject to the same kinds of load issues at various frequencies as low efficiency speakers to the extent that tonality can vary significantly still amp to amp. So it may pay to be aware that high efficiency alone does NOT assure optimal performance as designed. An easy load still matters. You can have the ability to go loud and still never have the desire to actually do it. Some may simply have no need...more modest volumes may suffice.

Also, good quality full range high efficiency speakers tend to be large and expensive. There are much fewer options to choose from. That is a big downside for those to whom it might matter.

But, if you filter the bass from the mains and use a sub to carry the load, that effectively makes you speakers MORE efficient than they were otherwise because producing flat and extended bass response is where most of the work is. So a properly implemented crossover and sub greatly increases the choices for speakers to use with a lower power amp ....in fact most any speaker might be made to work well with a 20 watt soft clipping tube amp if enough of the work producing flat extended bass is offloaded elsewhere.

Even in the best case though, listening at levels > than mid 80s SPL regularly is scientifically proven to be bad for your hearing over time so best to avoid that as much as possible.

Also as always, of course YMMV. It pays to be aware of these things (efficiency, load/impedance/phase measurements at various frequencies) when matching speakers to amps in order to get to a synergistic combo faster and more cost effectively. These are specifications/measurements that truly matter, but of course you still never know for sure exactly what will float one’s boat exactly for sure until you try. While good performance can be predicted, good sound is largely always still in the ear of the listener. That part of it is very hard to quantify. Good specs/measurements merely helps assure that more people will be able to achieve some degree of optimal performance faster and easier and along with that chances go up that the sound will be deemed "good" by more.

Of course price alone can often be the best spec/indicator to predict what people will think sounds good. People are funny that way....but its true.