Sell Me Your Women, Your Children, Your Vintage Turntable...


Ok I’m trying to understand the appeal of buying something like an old Garrard 301 or an elderly Technics all trussed up in a shiny new plinth, versus something manufactured in the 21st century by people not wearing clogs.

Surely modern gear has to perform better, dollar for dollar? It isn’t like these restored Garrards are exactly cheap, i was looking at one for almost $11k yesterday on Reverb. The internals looked like something out of a Meccano set.
 I ought to be more in tune with the past, I’m almost 60 and wear bell bottoms, but the style of the older TTs just doesn’t do it for me. Now then, my Dr. Feickert Volare had a look that was hardly futuristic, but that’s about as retro as I’d prefer to go.
All that said... I will buy one of these old buggers if it genuinely elevates performance. 
With $10k available for table and arm, on the new or used market, how would you splash the cash?

Rooze 
rooze
I’m setting here looking at a TD124 I, and a TD121. Pretty serious TT.
The rumble on those tables is the lowest of all of them. Hands down..
Get a stethoscope listen for yourself at the bearing base

I dug out a Garrard 401 (still 220 50hz) Hmmm??? Tiny
I like the 301 better, BUT I know I can get the 401 quieter.

I have my/a Russco sitting on a mobile. I’m setting it up for RtR recording. :-) Working on an air ride, we’ll see.
Garrard Killers, you should see the two setting side by side. OLD VW bus vs New Mercedes van.. LOL Twice as big.. Motor TWICE as big easy. 10th HP.. F/motors.. "Drivers start your engines" ZOOOOOM!!!

I have a 47 pounder I started 40 years ago. I did 5 of them. I have one left it’s on my page, it had a bugger or two.

Fairchild, Roberts, and EMT. Talk about "let me line my walls with".
The best I ever had was a 750 Fairchild with air lift.. ZERO rumble, 1 minute warm up.. Some one nicked it out of a friends house?????

One Of A Kind SOTA or moded TT are the absolute best, age HAZZZZZ ZERO to do with it..

Get one of each get a good arm or two and then a great cart/phono stage or two.

I’m going with mobile tonearm stands and arm boards for mounts too, tired of stationary mounts, friggen’ PITA.

Too many flavors to stick with just ONE or TWO or THREE, OP, don't you think?

4 is close 5 or 6 sounds better..

For now.. A pair of 124s. Definite Peach flavor.. and a dab of Russco, (flavor yet to be determined).

Regards
Brand new Dr. Feikert Black Bird with Kuzma Stogi S 12" tonearm with VTA tower $10,540.

If I had 10k to spend on a table I would be considering this one.

Now if I had 15k maybe the Feikert Trio (3 motors) with a Kuzma 4 point 11"


Billwojo, you forgot the motor which is directly connected to the plater in an idler drive. It does not have a bearing? Actually, it has two, one on either side of the stator. I'm sure it is a cool device. But, it is using outdated technology. They did not have electronic drives back then so the only way they could get multiple speeds in a high torque turntable was with a stepped drive shaft. Edgar Villchur realized that the requirements of audiophiles differed from radio stations, that quiet was much more important than torque. In one feel swoop he created the largest single step in turntable technology ever made. 
SME, Avid, Basis, Techdas and Kuzma do not use heavy, solid chassis? My Sota Cosmos uses a 1" thick Aluminum plate.
The excuse I here the most used to justify idler drives is that the torque gives the music more "drive." I have news for all of you. Idler drives are much less accurate over time than the best belt drive not to mention highly accurate direct drive turntables. They have more trouble maintaining 331/3 rpm than any other turntable design, wow and flutter. 
Their argument against belt drives is that belts stretch. Good belt drives have far less wow and flutter which is were stretchy belts would show up. The belts are stretched tight enough that any resonance is far above a heavy platter's ability to change speeds. 
What you have here are lame excuses to justify buying and rebuilding an ancient idler drive table. You don't need any excuses. They are wonderful devices and an important part of audio history. You cherish that more than the best absolute performance. I drive an old 911 for the same reason.  
Nope, I didn't forget the motor at all.
The motor certainly is not directly connected to the platter, there is a compliant rubber coated wheel between the motor shaft and the platter. Speed and W & F should be in the same area as a belt drive minus the slippage a belt drive can have as it's a simple mechanical reduction between the motor shaft diameter  and the platter contact area diameter. Slippage on an idler drive is non existent if it's adjusted correctly. Remember, professional idler drives come up to speed almost instantly.  If the ratio's are correct, speed will be correct. Idler drive motor RPM is set by incoming line frequency that is held to a very close tolerance.
If your looking for the ultimate in speed accuracy and low W & F measurements, the better DD will give you that easily.
I have nothing against a well built belt drive table but they have their issues as well.
Your ramblings are so full of inaccuracies it puts your credibility in question. 

BillWojo