Listening room ISSUES


Hi first let me introduce myself I'm new here and my name is Scott I'm 63 and I've been an audiophile all my life. I recently moved here from a place that had a dedicated listing room it was perfect 24 by 36 and a ceiling 12 ft high. Now my room is and likely will forever be 11 ft 8 x12 ft by 7 ft 8 in tall
One of the 12 ft walls has a door 3 ft from a corner and two windows in the other corner the other 12 ft wall is only 66 in Long with the other eight plus feet as an opening to a room that is 9 ft deep because of the opening on one 12'wall and a door on the other 12' wall I sit on one of the  11 ft 8  walls . I don't have the correct measuring equipment but I did go in a room  calculator and a speaker placement calculator and and even where I am forced to sit I am backed up to a wall literally a foot behind my ears the room placement calculators indicate the speaker should be about 4 ft apart 4 ft from the sidewalls and about two and a half from the front wall . I I really need to draw this . Initially I was sitting against the long wall . But living in the northwest when spring came I wanted to look out the windows so now I sit on the short wall.  This room has standing waves that are certainly higher than the tallest wave ever surfed. The base just overwhelms the mid-range I have tried room treatments for early reflections and The comb filtering I've been binge watching studio room treatment experts and this room breaks all the rules . My equipment is . Techniques SL-D 202 Shure M91 ED . Dennon PRA 1100 pre amp. A Dynaco VTA ST -120 I put the kit together in 2011 . Klipsch kg4 . I use a crown XLS 1502 with the  internal high pass filter at 60 cycles. Running a JBL 2445 H in a DIY 12.5 cubic foot enclosure tuned to 30 cycles.
I built it for the Klipsch LaScalla that I used to use in my old place. Yes I tried the LaScalla and you can imagine how that went.
But in my defense they still sound great in the front yard.
 I don't have a clue what to do. I have thought about putting my back to the open Wall but it would leave only 30" to get through but I am going to try it out if anyone thinks it's worth a shot . Thank you in advance for your help 🆘. Please excuse my typos .

scottttt
I had a 12X12 listening room (the only room the cats could not get to). To make a long story short, the best system I had in that room was a pair of Triangle Celius and tube amps. It was magical. It can be done. 
Yep that small, kitty corner, and the null space is for gear placement.. 

I've done it a couple of times with 15 x 20 x 8 rooms. It sure makes for less room treatment.. Decware does have a good article though.. ;-)

It's about placement in that room and overhead reflection IF you go corner to corner.. Speakers CAN (not have to be) be bigger.

DE pressure the room from bass, open a door open a window.. It works..
Unless you're already using an OB servo system.. Loads the room completely different.. Your ears respond different to mids and highs because of it..

Regards
Try Helmholtz resonators that will absorb the excess bass frequencies...

After that try some helmhotz diffusers....To help the other frequencies...


No need to buy anything....

I successfuly made mine with used tubes and plumber pipes, and straws of different lenght....

I use with great success 2 big 50 liters water glass bottle and i fix cardboard empty tubes on top ....With straws of very thin aperture for the smaller tubes and pipes resonators ...And with fabric cloth for the 2 big diffusers diffusers...

You only need to experiment to reach with fine tuning the optimal goal...

If i succeed you can.....

Information about Helmholtz resonators are all on the internet.... Let not the mathematical formula threaten you, use your ear, no need to calculate anything....But you need time to experiment.... It take me 3 months for 40 resonators.... My S.Q. is so good that nobody will believe me anyway.....People trust money more than science, and people dont like to experiment,especially with straws and empty toilet rolls beside costly amplifier and speakers... 😊

There is no BAD room by the way.... There exist only acoustically uncontrolled room...

My room is 13 feet by 13 feet and 8 feet 1/2 high.... My speakers are in a bad location , one speaker completely in a corner....

But my S.Q. is very good now and more than good by the way.....

Timbre, imaging, soundstage etc....

Acoustic is the way to audio NOT money.....

I use all discarded material and never bought anything costlier than a few bucks...

Audiophile experience may cost nothing....

I know that nobody will believe it....

It is my experience...

I dont boast about the name of my system parts like most here.... i boast about the way we can control vibrations, electrical noise floor and acoustic at NO cost or almost....

my best to you.....
Information about Helmholtz resonators are all on the internet.... Let not the mathematical formula threaten you, use your ear, no need to calculate anything....But you need time to experiment.... It take me 3 months for 40 resonators....

I’m very interested in Helmholtz resonators but the process described is very involved and requires a situation which permits time and control over your listening space.

That said -- let’s assume you could follow Mahgister’s advice. The obstacle for me would be this: if the resonators are very specifically tuned to remove certain ranges of frequency (and this is why they’re so good!) then one would have to know which frequencies one needs to remove or dampen. It’s no good to build a resonator for a specific frequency range and then decide to move one’s speakers or listening position, etc. Because in that scenario, one is left with a useless tube and wasted time.

I would think that these resonators are the LAST thing you do, after everything else has been decided and treated to the degree possible, and all permutations of listening position and speaker and sub placement has been tried.

Do I have that approximately right Mahgister? I want to contextualize your suggestion so I can better understand how and when the Helmholtz solution is effective to try.


Do I have that approximately right Mahgister? I want to contextualize your suggestion so I can better understand how and when the Helmholtz solution is effective to try.
Yes your cautionary remark are right...

Helmholtz resonators will not replace passive material acoustical treatment...Nor replace others rules like speakers placement...But the reverse is no less true, no PASSIVE material treatment will ever replace the resonators in a small "difficult" room...


BUT i recommend these resonators because they COST NOTHING...Except time and it is fun to experiment with...

Yes it take a dedicated room... Sorry if you are in a living room....


The obstacle for me would be this: if the resonators are very specifically tuned to remove certain ranges of frequency (and this is why they’re so good!) then one would have to know which frequencies one needs to remove or dampen.



An important point about your remark:

An Helmholtz device can be created like a very specific resonators to damp some frequencies... But the resonator will in some ratio enhance some others...

BUT I build 2 types of Helmhotz devices:

One i called a resonators with very thin aperture and neck variable in lenght and diameters...They damp specific frequencies...


But i also created Helmoltz diffusers with greater aperture with fabric cloth or/ and with a thin metal or plastic mesh to DIFFUSE all other frequencies that are not damped by my device... I use big glass water bottle with a long neck around 3 feet ( it is important to use different size for each diffuser)

Then the diffusers complement the resonators...

All experiments are made with the ears listening musical specific known timbre: piano and voices after that strings and brass orchestras....

Results: no cost and great S.Q. with an upgrading effect surpassing anything i ever try in gear upgrade....

My actual Mission speakers even if they are speakers of less refinement and quality than my old Tannoy sound better because of these acoustic controls...


The cost of my advice is ZERO DOLLARS....

Then the risk of failure is also ZERO if someone take the necessary time to fine tune all the resonators and diffusers...

It is very simple to do.... Only the fear to be wrong is a problem....






«Change the volume of the air cavity, or the length or diameter of the neck, and the frequency of
resonance changes. The width of this absorption band depends on the friction of the system. A glass
bottle offers little friction to the vibrating air and would have a very narrow absorption band. Adding
a bit of gauze across the mouth of the bottle or stuffing a wisp of cotton into the neck, the amplitude of
vibration is reduced and the width of the absorption band is increased. For maximum effectiveness,
Helmholtz absorbers should be placed in areas of high modal sound pressure for the tuned frequency.....


The sound impinging on a Helmholtz resonator that is not absorbed is reradiated. As the sound is
reradiated from the resonator opening, it tends to be radiated in a hemisphere. This means that unabsorbed energy is diffused, and diffusion of sound is very desirable in a studio or listening room....»


Master handbook of acoustics by Everest, Frederick Alton Pohlmann, Ken C. P.283