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Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,011 posts
 
Whatever magic @mahgister has conjured up through optimum embedding of his system could only be more wondrous through better speakers than his Missions.
I dont know why people dont understand my point....

FIRST: i own Tannoy dual gold speakers for a long time and they are better than my actual Mission...

SECOND: how can someone argue against a common place fact like: some speakers are better than others ?

Third: my claim is instead of going with the urge to upgrade their speakers, why not listening what they are able to do with acoustic basic laws...

Fourth:

There is no " magic" in science based controls of mechanical vibrations, electrical noise floor, and acoustic...


Instead of buying costly speakers i recommend to people to buy a book about acoustic.... 😁😁


The urge for upgrade is most of the times waste of money because many  dont understand the basic of embeddings controls in the 3 working dimensions of any audio system....

Is it not clear and simple ?

Then opposing to my affirmation the meaningless fact that some Tannoy speakers are better than Mission is a commom place fact not an argument....
larryi
3,976 posts
 
Power is cheap and the market is flooded with 200 plus watt per channel amps.  It doesn’t make sense to say that amps hardly matter but efficiency in a speaker is paramount.  Why is efficiency important if you can readily find enough power and the quality of that power doesn’t matter?  To me efficiency IS very important because the best sounding amps are low-powered and amp quality matters a lot.
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
You can take  Jadis' JA800 mono blocks , thats 4 chassis at like 150+ pounds each, and  pair these monsters witha say Wilson 85bd monster, and it will indeed sound likea   wet blanket has been thrown over the speakers = the JA800 has been rendered down to garbage, with all its pure tube experience sucked bone dry by a  low efficiency xover dinasaur speaker.
AS larry says above, , massive power is not going to deliver  super high fidelity, not when the speaker is below 90db efficiency. 
BIg power amps is not going to make magic happen if the speaker is sucking the life blood out the amperage.
The only way you can acheive super high fidelity is via super high  sensitivty speakers  = aka the new Full Range speakers. (caveat, Vox does have quite a few 91db speakers, but we are talking a  TRUE rating, not fudged, and its a clean  nearly flat sensitivity across the entire fq spectrum,,, more important, extremely low distortion which offers 91db acceptable)
Speakers rule,
They are the Kings in your system, the amp/source serve the speaker as ministers.
 The speakers is The King.
Most xover/low sens designs , please deduct 2db from the manufacturers  spec claims.
Your 87db is now a  miserable 85db. = Good luck with that efficiency. 


mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
@larryi and mozartfan you are both making generalizations that fall apart all over the place. There are some fine sounding low power amps but there are also many fine sounding high powered amps. 85dB/watt/meter is not a problem if you have a Simaudio Moon 888. It is a very expensive solution but it certainly will go loud enough. 64 watts will get you 104 dB at one meter, plenty loud enough. Super efficient loudspeakers are mandatory only if you are using pea watt amplifiers and most of these are just distortion boxes. But, some people like the sound. I have no idea why. My favorite loudspeakers are rated at 89dB/watt/meter. 30 watts will get you to 104 dB. I have another 320 watts to handle the peaks. There are some very efficient full range drivers I would love to hear. I would not mind setting up a system around a Dynakit Stereo 70 for nostalgia reasons. 
larryi
3,976 posts
 
I've heard some good high powered amps, and if I had speakers that required that kind of power, I would own such amps.  But, I have personally not heard a high powered amp that I preferred over a good low-powered amp when driving efficient speakers.  I've heard, and liked, amps from Constellation, Soulution and Ayre, but, I still prefer certain low-powered amps when driving high efficiency speakers.  A local dealer that only sells tube amplification has a Parasound Halo amp that is used for demonstration purposes against the mostly low-powered tube amps in the store.  I have not met anyone who preferred the solid state amp when driving speakers of medium-high efficiency (like Audio Note AN-E's).

If I owned the likes of a Soundlab  or Magneplanar speakers (I like these brands of speakers), I would own a medium to high-powered solid state amp, and I certainly would be happy with the combination.  All systems involve some compromises and making a small compromise with going solid state is something I would do (for higher power I actually prefer solid state over tubes).  But, I happen to own high efficiency speakers that I like, so I can stick with the low-powered amps that I prefer.


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