Speaker size and soundstage

Mahgister......Man you are a tool !

Go Mahgister! I am impressed.

I am; "Ignorant, arrogant, indiscriminate, egotistical, boring, grey and stupid." I don't think you missed a thing. 

I have no idea why you would expend so much energy on an idiot like me. Seems like a waste of time. 

In the end Mahgister all one has is experience. Whether or not that experience is applicable to others is for them to decide. I stand firmly behind everything I said. If someone can show me I made a mistake I will be more than happy to apologize.  

Go Mahgister! I am impressed.

You are right about the use of the adjective "stupid".... It is too much and i apologize...


BUT

Why do you claim something about MOAB speakers you dont own yourself?

Why do you claim that ALL people listening to a sound out of their speakers and not only between them are in a collective illusion or ignorant?

Why do you claim acoustical falsehood and proclaim them truth : absorbing waves at first reflection point cannot be a universal rule, it is related to each room and speakers relation....The use of reflective panel can be also a tool at these points.... It is related to the precise timing of waves in a specific room and the duration of reverberation time...

Why do you think electronical equalization is a solution, when it is at MOST a tool ?

My post was a reaction to these 4 points in your post....

This is ignorance and very boring arrogance putting many people testimonies in the same deception  bag.....( if you read cautiously my post "egotistical" was not directed against you ) I call your arrogance "boring"....

I cannot apologize for this adjective....

I have listened to Moabs and examined the enclosure construction with a woofer removed not to mention the design issues are obvious to look at.
IMHO it is a speaker designed t do one thing and one thing only, make as much money as possible. They certainly did not image well when I heard them and I do not think you can get them beyond what I would call standard imaging.

Next, I think your description of what I said is a bit harsh.
 Unless the recording engineer resorts to studio hocus pocus all instruments and voices are recorded within the confines of two channels. If the engineer mixes an instrument hard left (nothing to the right) that instrument will appear to come directly from the left speaker. It is impossible under normal circumstances for an engineer to mix an instrument beyond the confines of the two channels. The only way that an instrument can appear to come from outside those boundaries is if enough early reflected sound comes back to the listening position from outside those boundaries moving the image to the outside. So by definition you have acoustic interference and distortion of the signal. Ideally that should not happen. It is a problem that needs to be fixed.  This is different than ambience extending outside the boundaries of the speaker, the sensation of being in a large venue or room other than the one you are in. That information is low level and the late reflections in the room send it back with even more delay simulating a room that is even larger. So, your soundstage extends into the larger venue and you feel as if you are right there in front of the stage. Very cool when it happens. But, instruments do not come from beyond the speakers. If they do you have an acoustic problem as nothing else in my experience will do that except maybe a vivid imagination.
I prefer terms that actually describe what is happening. Saying a turntable has good pace to me is ..rather ridiculous. The pace and/or time is determined by the musicians. It is part of the art of music and determines the feeling of the song or music. Nothing in the audio chain is responsible for this unless it is malfunctioning. A turntable or speaker can be dynamic. I know exactly what that term means. Sometimes it is difficult to describe what you are hearing which to me means you have to be even more careful in the way you describe it. 

Peace and love  

The only way that an instrument can appear to come from outside those boundaries is if enough early reflected sound comes back to the listening position from outside those boundaries moving the image to the outside. So by definition you have acoustic interference and distortion of the signal.

You miss the fact that the recording engineer placing his different TYPES of mic at different location INTERPRET the acoustical settings of the recording hall or room and TRANSLATE them in a specific atmosphere...

This atmosphere is RECREATED with plus or minus success in the acoustical settings of the listener room...

Then well controlled a listener room can recreate this atmosphere with an impression of spatiality encompassing the room itsef in some case....



The timing controls of reflections and their ratio early/late coming from not only the side but from the back and front is ONE of my KEY factor to control my imaging/soundstage and source width/ envelopment factors... The other KEY factor is diffusion/absorption balance with the Helmhotz resonators not only with passive material treatment....

What you call an acoustic "distortion", when controlled, is what i called a piano or an orchestra sound OUT of my speakers laterally or/ and in the front/back dimension in my room....It is related also for sure to the way the recording engineer make his acoustical choices ....But the sound ,save in bad recording, is  never  ONLY between the speakers....



Read this abstract second paragraph attentively:

2aAAS. A new physical measure for psychological evaluation of a soundfield: Front/back energy ratio as a measurefor
envelopment.M. Morimoto (Environmental Acoust.Lab.,Facultyof Eng.,KobeUniv., Rokko,Nada,Kobe,657Japan)and
K. Iida (Kobe Univ., Kobe,657 JapanandMatsushitaCommun.IndustrialCo., Ltd., Japan)
Broadeningis oneof the importantcharacteristics for the psychological evaluationof a soundfield.Severalinvestigations
indicatedthatbroadeningwascomprisedoftwoelemental senses, i.e.,auditorysourcewidth(spaciousness) andenvelopment [M.
Morimoto et al., Proc. 13th ICA, Belgrade2, 215-218 (1989); J. AcoustSoc.Jpn.46, 449-457 (1990); and Hidaka et al., J.
Acoust.Soc.Am. 92, 2469 (A) (1992)].


«They inferred that the degree of interaural cross correlation of late reflections correlated
with envelopment. This paper, however, shows the results of psychological experiments that envelopment is affected by the energy
ratio of reflections coming from the front of the listener to those coming from the back of the listener,even if the degree of
interaural cross correlation of the late reflections are equal.Namely,envelopment grows as the energyof the reflection coming
from the back of the listener increases. This result suggests the need to measure the ratio which has never been measure...»


Peace and love !