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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
I’m not sure what are you trying to prove me?
I have 20-30 years ahead to improve my system, but you guys are already retired, glad you are not broke at your age and still thinking about the sound.

I remember we discussed his phono stage long time ago on audiogon.

But I have mentioned him in this thread ONLY because of his innovative cantilever. Some people have no sense of humor, a cartridge for $10k is nonsense (no matter what it is). But it is well suited in the DIAMOND thread.

P.S. I am quite happy with a cartridge made by people who teached him in Australia back in the day. I think I paid no more than $200 for original Garrott P77 and it was so sweet on Reed 3p.

I still have a Glanz MFG61 moving flux, JVC X1 MM and a few others in the box - I never listen to them, any decent LOMC for around $1500 blitzes them.

You never listen to them, but you think ....
I think Halcro (the OP) was very impressed by Victor MM cartridges and Steve Dobbins praised Glanz 61. I believe both of them were able to compare those cartridges to some of the best LOMC out there.

edgewear
543 posts
 
Gentlemen, pleeeze......

This thread is about the merits of diamond cantilevers or the lack thereof. We finally had JC back in here, the one person with more knowledge about cartridges than all of us combined. We were hoping he would be willing to shed his light, especially as he has never used diamond cantilevers in Lyra cartridges, which is probably not by accident.

He hasn’t yet taken the bait and respond to that question. I assume this childish and hostile bickering amongst yourselves isn’t going to help. This kind of behaviour probably drove him away in the first place.

nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
My problem is that I like both; Dover and Chakster  So my way
out is to state that both are right. 
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
Addendum. I am familiar whith the ''whole story'' about Andreoli.
I have even read his ''thoretical work'' in German. But I deed not
''grasp'' his preference for aluminum cantilever not to mention
his preference for spherical styli. So when i heard that he uses
new kind of cantilevers and styli I posted my Magic diamond to
Expert stylus in order to ''improve '' my Magic. The new sapphire
cantilever + ''ultra low mass Paratrace stylus''. Cost me 400 GBP.
And the result is? Nobody want  to buy my Magic because it
is ''retiped''. Tanks chakster (grin). 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,492 posts
 
Shoot nandric, cut the political crap. This is fun. I've got two pairs of boxing gloves. Let's have at it. Better yet, how's about a dual! Raul get out those dueling pistols of yours. Back to back gentleman.

@dover , forgetting about the signal to noise issue, modern moving magnet/iron cartridges are now using the same styli and cantilevers of even the most expensive moving coil cartridges and have response curves over 30 kHz forgetting that it is unlikely you can hear anything over 12 kHz. the high end of many moving coils is exaggerated. Many like that. They think it adds detail. It does not and I do not. There are a few neutral MCs I like like the Ortofon Windfeld Ti but even that does not have the punch of a moving magnet cartridge. Eventually I will probably get a current mode phono stage which I understand is more dynamic with a better signal to noise ratio. Until then I will stick with high output cartridges that are not MCs. It is not like I have a crappy system either. I would think it safe to assume someone willing to put up with 8 foot ESLs cares about what he is listening to. 

At any rate my experience with diamond cantilevers is limited, like nonexistent. It does not seem to be the best way to spend your money all things considered. I have had a cartridge with a sapphire cantilever, the Talisman S and now have a cartridge with a Ruby cantilever that I have not had the chance to listen to yet, The Voice, by Soundsmith. IDEA!

retipper, if you are available perhaps you can help us out here. What ar the advantages of a diamond cantilever, disadvantages. You seem to prefer ruby and cactus. Could you tell us briefly why? Thanx so much in advance for helping us out.
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