Also keep in mind what Atmasphere has written many times about the potential role of the phono stage in enhancing ticks and pops. I think the phenomenon he describes is very underrated as a cause. I own very large heavy turn tables that are isolated by feet that do not pass mechanical energy efficiently but never by springs or any sorbothane. I also feed the output of the turntables to any one of three high gain phono stages. I rarely if ever hear a tick or a pop, only on my most marginal and worn out LPs. In fact, ticks and pops rarely if ever have anything to do with footers or the method of suspension. They usually arise at the LP surface, enhanced by the electromechanical interaction of the cartridge with the phono, resulting in resonance at the frequencies of ticks and pops.
Ok, what just happened? My turntable journey...thus far.
My experience with analog has not been especially gratifying.That is until now....
Last year I decided to spend what I thought was a good amount of money on a decent turn table, a Technics SL1210GR. It came with a Denon DL110 cartridge and I had a purchased a Consonance PM6 phono stage from a local dealer.
When I compared the sound to my digital front end I always thought the digital sounded vastly superior. Those ticks, pops, and surface noise would really ruin the experience of listening to music--for me.
Then I posted this thread: "How much difference does a phono preamp really make?"
It generated some good discussion and and I received some really good feedback. Based on that information, I decided to upgrade the Denon cart to a Audio Technica VM760SLC and the Consonance phono pre to a Herron VTPH-1. This was a significant upgrade in terms of sound quality but those dang ticks and pops!!! Still there. Still annoying.
For those wondering, I do have a RCM and am pretty meticulous about vinyl hygiene.
I was looking at my system today and I noticed I had those rubber/ cork anti-vibration pads under every component, EXCEPT my turntable. I have the larger 3" x 3" pads. They seem to be a little more squishy/ compressible than the smaller ones.
I decided to throw these underneath the stock feet of the Technics.
WOW....
None of the changes I made to my system have had a greater impact than throwing these pads under my TT. Not upgrading the cart, the phono stage, the mat from stock to Herbie’s. Nothing.
It greatly improved the sound quality, the separation between instruments, presented a blacker background. And I don’t know why, but it even greatly reduced the surface noise -- and the tick and pops seemed a lot less noticeable. I even threw on a 2-eye Columbia pressing of Miles’ "Nefertiti" from the 60’s that I knew was not the quietest, and it was VERY listenable.
Can anyone explain what is happening here?
I’m starting to think Millercarbon may be on to something regarding TT isolation via Townsend pods/ Nobsound springs! I may give the latter a try for 30 bucks. Who knows I may even buy some of that tape he was talking about!
This certainly can be a crazy - yet rewarding - hobby we have here.
Thanks for listening....
Joe
Last year I decided to spend what I thought was a good amount of money on a decent turn table, a Technics SL1210GR. It came with a Denon DL110 cartridge and I had a purchased a Consonance PM6 phono stage from a local dealer.
When I compared the sound to my digital front end I always thought the digital sounded vastly superior. Those ticks, pops, and surface noise would really ruin the experience of listening to music--for me.
Then I posted this thread: "How much difference does a phono preamp really make?"
It generated some good discussion and and I received some really good feedback. Based on that information, I decided to upgrade the Denon cart to a Audio Technica VM760SLC and the Consonance phono pre to a Herron VTPH-1. This was a significant upgrade in terms of sound quality but those dang ticks and pops!!! Still there. Still annoying.
For those wondering, I do have a RCM and am pretty meticulous about vinyl hygiene.
I was looking at my system today and I noticed I had those rubber/ cork anti-vibration pads under every component, EXCEPT my turntable. I have the larger 3" x 3" pads. They seem to be a little more squishy/ compressible than the smaller ones.
I decided to throw these underneath the stock feet of the Technics.
WOW....
None of the changes I made to my system have had a greater impact than throwing these pads under my TT. Not upgrading the cart, the phono stage, the mat from stock to Herbie’s. Nothing.
It greatly improved the sound quality, the separation between instruments, presented a blacker background. And I don’t know why, but it even greatly reduced the surface noise -- and the tick and pops seemed a lot less noticeable. I even threw on a 2-eye Columbia pressing of Miles’ "Nefertiti" from the 60’s that I knew was not the quietest, and it was VERY listenable.
Can anyone explain what is happening here?
I’m starting to think Millercarbon may be on to something regarding TT isolation via Townsend pods/ Nobsound springs! I may give the latter a try for 30 bucks. Who knows I may even buy some of that tape he was talking about!
This certainly can be a crazy - yet rewarding - hobby we have here.
Thanks for listening....
Joe
- ...
- 17 posts total
Now that you’ve realized TT’s performance is greatly affected by floor and airborne vibrations, read up on this blog for more options on turntable isolation. https://coloredvinylrecords.com/blog/best-turntable-isolation-platforms/ |
@geoff3, "Isolation/damping is everything with a turntable." It really is. I once placed a cheap nondescript plastic turntable (given to me by a friend) on top of a lightweight bit extremely rigid wooden table who itself was stood on a carpeted floor and was surprised at just how good it sounded. [Somewhere between my Rega 3 and Linn as used on a wall shelf!!]. It was, as I recall, a particularly wide and spacious sound, if not having any bandwidth to talk about. The fact that it probably cost less than the Linn K9 cartridge was remarkable enough. The importance of turntable isolation is another thing that we should all agree on. @chakster , "P.S. Nobody uses springs under reference Technics DD such as SP-10R, SP-10 mk3 and SP-10 mk2. People use them in a massive plinths (no springs, never)." Apparently that was the approach of the BBC too back in the days when they relied almost entirely upon vinyl playback. I’m guessing that the use of sheer mass would help push unwanted structural resonances up into frequencies that would prove harmless to decks such as the SP10. No doubt that it would also help some of the presenters cue up in their self-op studios. The Technics decks were very popular with broadcasters from the early 1970s up til the era of CD. @audionoobie, "This certainly can be a crazy - yet rewarding - hobby we have here." It certainly can be. It was almost a case of chasing your own tail back in the day. Some 30 years ago we were kind of stumbling around in the dark following distant voices conveying word of mouth messages. However things are much better now that we have access to the kind of helpful information we’ve already seen in this thread. "I even threw on a 2-eye Columbia pressing of Miles’ "Nefertiti" from the 60’s that I knew was not the quietest, and it was VERY listenable." That’s the kind of sign that we all look for, but it can also be an irresistible temptation to want more, and more of it. Your hard work seems to have finally paid off, and my guess is that you’re now very close to the absolute pinnacle of what can be achieved. |
- 17 posts total