On ''what there is''

to lavish all that distortion on mere double layer of drywall w green glue, seems such a waste…lavish it on me…

From SEP, Quine entry: "What entities we ought to commit ourselves to depends on a prior descriptive account of what entities theories are committed to

True for sure...

But there is a deeper layer behind this experience meaningfully refered to and described by Quine...which is the basis of human technological and discursive activities in the wide meaning of the word technological...

There is an ultimate goethean layer:

Goethe stated: "One should not see anything further behind the phenomena: they themselves are the theory."

Here phenomena are no more an external affair, but an internal affair of our own consciiousness...A slight change in our consciousness... A change without any discursive expression yet... An experience...Not a logical proposition, perhaps a metaphor though...

" What there is" lies out of an unbeknown window...But metaphors related what is inside and outside the window...Metaphor are pre-logical discourse....Poetry on an ontological footing... They express a way of seeing not a discourse....Metaphor express change in the eye and in the window and in what lies before us...



«Metaphors speak  in spite of us »-Anonymus Smith

''The issue of existence'' is the same as ''what there is''.
The case of Higgs particles may enlighten the problem.
Higgs invented ''boson particle'' in order to improve the
theory. So every particle physicist knew what ''boson
particle means'' (in the sense of contribution to the theory)
but nobody knew if this particle EXIST. So we in Europe
have build 27 km long particle accelerator in Cern to prove
or refute the existence of Higgs particle. After proving the
existence of this particle the theory was saved. Because
success is rewording the new accelerator of 100 km length
will be build costing 23 billion euro's. 
Such proves are not known in relation to existence of God. 
Those are always verbal. One should discriminate between
talking about language (aka ''meaning'') and extra linguistic
reality. Pegasus or unicorns are linguistic but if one want to
hunt unicorns in Africa or fly on Pegasus I wish them success. 
BTW the lack of knowledge by ''some'' members is disturbing. 

I think there is a lot of drunk posting on this one. 

It is easy to claim common place fact like unicorn dont exist but Higgs boson exist by the proven construct of Cern detector...

And very easy to say common place fact like: "One should discriminate between
talking about language (aka ’’meaning’’) and extra linguistic
reality."

Typical second rate nominalism will not be enough though.... (If you cant understand Goethe try Charles Sanders Peirce to understand why nominalism is not enough)

Man is not a "tabula rasa" as think people like behaviorists Skinner or Quine when they speak of language acquisition...

Cassirer explain very deeply after Buhler why symbolic competence is behind consciousness speech act and any human activity ...

I suggest Chomsky to correct your Quinean view of language, if Peirce, Buhler, or Cassirer are too "heavy" for you ...

For example : P.Swiggers: "How Chomsky skinned Quine"

"BTW the lack of knowledge by ’’some’’ members is disturbing. "

Perhaps it is my posts which pointed toward something that is not "common place" and trivial fact like yours...

Perhaps it is you who dont understand them at all.... Because for example language cannot be understood only by this childish evident distinction between external meaning and an external object... Study one of the greatest linguist of the century : Gustave Guillaume...If you dont read french try Karl Buhler...

Perhaps there is also something called " consciousness" which is not the product of matter or linguistic playing....

Read Goethe and learn about it....If you dont understand Goethe try Husserl Or Cassirer...
I will be here to help you...

I will recommend to you a physicist who wrote many books about Goethe because instead of insulting people about their alleged ignorance i prefer to help them...

Henry Bortoft....