An interesting demonstration


The woman whose name is Poppy does a mind bending demonstration of how suggestion can dictate what we hear.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ 
128x128mijostyn
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.



When you smoke it,  a cigar it is not....
Hilde45, That is an interesting distinction. Listening to the landscape instead of individual instruments. I think I inferred that with the choir analogy. 

I certainly listen to the landscape with complicated pieces like a symphony unless a particular instrument sticks out that I am interested in.
The problem is I do not listen that way when I am evaluating sound. Listening to music and evaluating sound are two distinctly different endeavors. As soon as you start evaluating imaging by default you are listening to individual instruments and where they are, how big they are and so forth. The situation is complicated enough that I am not sure "Habit" applies other that you might listen to bass first and rhythm guitar second. But, for how long and when? The odds of you doing it exactly the same way are very high.

nonoise, you are making it far more complicated than it actually is. Why? Personal bias perhaps. 

Cigars make me sick.
The fact that "music" is not sound perception ONLY, illustrate the misconception about what acoustic is precisely in his scope....

We cannot hear what we are unable to name first...Save a noise without physionomy....

But for example a good acoustician can SEE the sound in a room... Like some blinds navigate street without help by echolocation... Acoustic laws are not equation on a sheet of paper only or electronic computer equalization impersonal  program, but they MAY be perceived phenomena in a room...My mechanical equalizer is precisely that...

And what we are able to name we may hear it in a chaotic crowd of instruments...

And we must learn how to perceive to name something...

A cigar is a cigar for someone who know that he must smoke it, otherwise it is an herb packet...

And nonoise say something meaningful here mijostyn , dont throw a personal argument against him.... This wrong way to argue has a name in a debate....

He said that picking the trump of an elephant  when keeping blinders  could mask the overall geometry of the object...




I certainly listen to the landscape with complicated pieces like a symphony unless a particular instrument sticks out that I am interested in.The problem is I do not listen that way when I am evaluating sound. Listening to music and evaluating sound are two distinctly different endeavors


When I was learning to listen critically last year, someone (Darko?) suggested listening not only with focused attention, but to do a crossword puzzle (e.g.) while listening. Almost a "peripheral vision" kind of move.

This would help one shift to a mode of listening which, while attentive, was not acting like a microscope. (So many visual metaphors! So few aural ones!)

To stick with the visual analogies for a moment, when I go to a museum, I start off by standing about 6 feet from a painting; then, I go in close to look at various details, then I back up.Landscape or single element -- they're all attended to critically in this process (for me).



There are just as many if not more factors that make up a great audio performance, timbre, location, size, dimensionality, detail, dynamics, focus. Both your system and the source have to provide all of that and you have to pay attention to all of it. As a mental exercise can you do it all at once? I certainly can not.