" If you don't care for their rules, you have the freedom of choice to not join. "
Exactly So !
Adding a “safe haven” forum for discussion of tweaks?
I think we can all agree that threads about tweaks like fuses, stones, mats, power conditioners etc. stir up all kinds of controversy, conflict and ill will.
Short of banning discussion of these controversial topics, is there another solution to this problem?
I got this idea from teo_audio’s comments about a solution implemented at Canuck audio on another thread:
“Canuck audio tames it by having a cable and tweak area for threads. Where any counter to the idea that such things are functional (in attempt or in analysis), is not tolerated.
Meaning.. threads where people discuss tweaks, or mods or cables and so on, if a naysayer posts there, and interrupts the discussion, in any way, they get their posts deleted. And...if the given naysayer can’t hold their tongue, after said deletion-ish warnings..... they will, rapidly, via any repeats in behavior, find themselves banned from the forum. They have to grow up, or get lost.”
You may not like parts of his description, but I think the idea has real merit.
I propose a new “safe haven” sub-forum, with some special rules, for the discussion of tweaks. These rules would ONLY apply to this specific sub-forum, the current rules would continue as they are in all other areas.
The special rules would be along these lines:
Posts that categorically deny the possibility of tweaks having any effect or value are not allowed.
Posts proclaiming tweaks to be “scams” “cons” etc. are not allowed.
Posts that directly state, or imply, that another poster is lying, are not allowed.
Posts that make absolute negative statements like “Science proves it can’t work.” are not allowed.
Posts demanding measurements, controlled listening tests etc. are not allowed.
Posts that express skepticism (without making absolute negative statements), ask tough questions, or request more information are welcome.
Of course, some who hold the above opinions may object, but they would still be able to express those opinions in all other parts of the forum, just like they always have.
What do you think?
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Thsi is my post from the other thread, i guess it needed to be here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Canuck audio forum ’cable forum area’ rules end up being effective in this sort of way: The premise, is that area of the fourm is for threads that talk about tweaks, cables, the efficacy of mods and tweaks, what they should sound like, or not sound like. It does not preclude talking about the idea of discovery work in why they work the way they do. it does not preclude discussing the potentials in science and engineering and the discovery work in why they appear to work they way they do. What is forbidden, is to interrupt such discussions about such product, devices, ideas and/or musing on it all. It is forbidden to interrupt and call it all lies, and snake oil, hogwash, unreal,and so on. One is forbidden to ARGUE that it is all garbage. That it is all unscientific. One can discuss the efficacy of such thing and investigate it’s origins. One can’t denigrate and attack it’s basis for being or it’s exploration in a negative way. That’s it. nothing more. If there is a discussion of any type of that nature going on, and the negativity was not invited, then it can’t get into the conversation. If the topic INVITES the discussion of it’s basis or reality, in science, THEN the discussion of such - is on. but importantly, not in a negative way that says the premise is unreal. Where lets say, I heard what I heard. The naysayer cannot, even by sly wording, via gaming their wording - argue agaisnt the hearing of it. I heard what I heard. the end. what all that means is fair game if the duscssion of it is invited. But the heard thing was heard. That -----is not posible to dispute. And no, they don’t have to announce that they don’t want the negative input. Negative input is forbidden unless specifically asked for. Oh yes, hatred against tweaks and cables, etc, starting such thread in the cable and tweaks forum area -is forbidden. If one wants to to do that, they can go and do that in some other forum area. ~~~~~~~~~~ The result, is that no one talks about how good or bad cables are, how good or bad tweaks are, how such things sound, and so on. No one bothers, as they already know the stuff is real and it works. It works well, or if it works poorly (for the individual, etc).. is it a good deal, a bargain... or it is a poor choice? Rsults vary, for people and their audio systems. This is all expected and is all known things, for the people who think and do such, concerning their own audio systems. But, importantly, IF the subjectively heard sonic results of experimentation, is raised (I hear this, etc).. no one is allowed to INTERFERE in the conversation. No one is allowed to inject any negative takes into the conversation. If they want to do that, they have to go to OTHER forum areas to do that. they can create a thread where they burn flags and effigies of the horrible tweak and cable using/discussing people. The people who use tweaks and cables, etc.. where they understand it subjectively or even scientifically... they won’t interfere or get involved, for the most part. they know they are dealing with projections and Karen complexes (some are even visibly frothing!), much of it executed or framed in a VERY poorly misunderstood idea of what science is. Haters, talk amongst yourselves, is the result. No. One. Cares. The result is peace, bliss, silence. Cable and tweak dissent and hatred disappears from the forum, almost entirely. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ What it all ends up saying: If one is worried that all that cable and tweak stuff is going to take over the given forum, well, simply... it does not happen. It just doesn’t. that boogeyman does not exist. It’s a projecting Karen twist of the mind. The history of it, in all other forums that deal with it by allowing it or it even being central to the given forum..well it does not take over. The outsized reactionary response is not there, and the cable believers, etc..don’t feel a need to protect their position as there is nothing to protect against. No one gets overexcited and wars don’t erupt. What does exist, though... is the outsized hatred based response to tweaks and cables, etc. That reactionary insanity..when it is disallowed from interrupting discussions, it is found to be what the tweaker and cable believers know it to be --an emotionally based animal response that is totally out of control. That the cable hater doth protest too much. And that is the part that has to be told off and cooled off, blocked off. And the result, is peace for all, in this subject area only, of course. There are plenty of other things to react blindly about, for everybody....
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After I pry myself from my wife arm and sit down with cup of coffee I see some poster here KDL with complex that call inferior to other. This one reason for so many power struggle and dumb rule where people behind 10 year boy wanting be girl in society and reason censor information and ultimate struggle for being in charge of political system and try align people at all cost but that greater issue than forum but it relate when people say some want more freedom and other want to let other not have freedom. I ask my wife about this post and she say maybe I too much man. I like toolbox idea and when I own site I get change like that done. Put post maker in driver seat not have to deal with people they don't want post. |
tsushima Really? Get A Grip 🤨
Great, There ya’ go. If you don’t like the way I handle the direction of my threads. If you think I cut too many posts, or leave too many counter-productive posts in; "you have the freedom of choice to not join. " "Exactly So!" Or If I think someone is posting too many unproductive comments I can cut a few and keep my topic on track and productive. Thanks for the help. Tim |
@mikelavigne made some great points that sum up what I see. Many of the most knowledgeable and experienced LISTENERS that previously contributed here regularly are around rarely or never, because they've tired of posts that detract from listening-based opinions, suggestions and questions. I abhor censorship and really don't want to go down the road of deleting opinions I don't agree with. The frustrating part of all the derailed threads is that most of the objectivists restate the same talking points over and over in threads where OP asks for insights from those who've listened to a particular piece of gear. Maybe one day I'll see a post where someone proves that they've studied the correlation between a sonic descriptor and a measurement with a large statistically signifcant population and low margin of error...then use that to perform perfect unbiased testing on all the sonic parmeters I'm interested in...and then they'll apply all that on a large statistically significant population A/B-ing the two tonearms I'm considering. Then they can tell me they proved A is better than B. Perhaps, I'll then take note of their recommendation. Maybe an "off topic" button that flags a moderator review after ## votes would help. Some sites move posts to start a separate thread rather than deleting it, where it makes sense. IMHO thumbs up and down don't really get the job done. Just read a sports site where all the rival fans vote up their own teams. It doesn't advance the original conversation. Cheers, Spencer
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