Dustcover Blues


Most of you probably know that I have always championed the use of dustcovers on turntables even during play, the goal being to protect the record from the environment and shield it from sound. For the first time in my audio career I have stumbled into a problem with this and other than not putting the dustcover down I have not come up with a solution. 

Yesterday I was playing Herbie Hancock's Secrets and I cranked it on my favotite song. After about 30 seconds the room started to rumble. My subs were putting out a remarkably clean 20 Hz as if I were playing a test tone. Feedback! Just turn the volume down a little and it disappears. Turn the volume back up and within 30 seconds it starts up again. Did I screw up my cartridge set up? I veiwed the tonearm during the feedback and it was rock solid. Usually with low frequency feedback you can see the tonearm shaking. I played the resonance tracks on an Ortofon test record and both lateral and vertical resonance were centered on 9 Hz With the feedback going and the house shaking I wanted a better look at the cantilever. On lifting the dustcover the feedback stopped!  The dust cover is attached to the plinth which is isolated from the sub chassis (tonearm and platter mounted on this) by four springs. The resonance frequency of this suspension is 2 Hz. Nothing above 2 Hz can pass directly through to the platter and tonearm. What is going on here? Any of you scientists out there have a clue? My best guess is that I am dealing with a type of Helmholtz resonation. The dust cover is lowered on four hard rubber pads, one at each corner. There is a 1/16" slot all the way around. This combined with the weight and dimensions of the dust cover creates a resonance at 20 Hz. To get it going I have to turn the volume way up. 

Today when I get home I'll play around with it to see if I can figure it out. Any ideas would be appreciated. 

128x128mijostyn

Dear Raul, That’s a very interesting article. The author makes a good point that using the term "fast" when describing a woofer is specious, because the "speed" required to reproduce very low frequencies accurately is within reach of any well designed woofer. But then he goes on to say: "There are reasons to use lighter, lower-mass woofer cones. They just happen to be different reasons than the ones you’ve read in print. Smaller woofers don’t make faster bass, but they do reproduce higher frequencies than larger woofers can reproduce, and this is all important when it comes to speaker design. You want the midrange driver and the woofer to integrate with sublime symmetry, with perfection and with nary a single problematic interaction throughout their overlap zone. This is why you want smaller, lighter, "faster" woofer cones -- not because they lead to faster bass. That overlap zone is so amazingly critical to your perception of bass speed that there is little or no tolerance for error." Note also that your expert does allow for the idea that some woofers are "faster" than others; he has only re-defined the term in a sense with which I do not disagree. By the way, no one "told me" anything about this. My conclusions are based on real world experiences that I had maybe 35-40 years ago when I was playing around with woofers to supplement ESLs that I then owned. So, I am expressing my personal independently arrived at opinion.

 

So perhaps I can be faulted for my choice of the word "fast", but what your authority wrote above is what I had in mind. Now if Mijostyn is using an 80db/octave crossover, on both high and low pass filters, then perhaps the capacity of his woofers in his system to produce higher frequencies is moot. On the other hand, all of his audio is passing through the digital domain afforded by his digital filter. That does not appeal to me.

 

Mijostyn, Along the same line of reasoning, you wrote, "Lastly, there is no such thing as a "fast subwoofer" when a woofer is not fast enough it’s high frequencies roll off." I hope you see the internal contradiction there. If there is no such thing as a fast woofer, then there is no such thing as a woofer that is not fast enough. But to both you and Raul, I would concede that I was guilty of sloppy semantics. When I say "fast woofer", I am thinking of the woofer and its enclosure as a whole. And I did not make that clear. You could put a small, i.e, "fast", woofer in an enclosure that limited its speed by virtue of what happens to the back wave, and it wouldn’t sound so fast, which we can define here as able to integrate well with an ESL panel. Like I responded to Raul, perhaps with an 80db/octave slope you need not worry about the capacity of your woofer enclosures to deal with frequencies above your crossover chosen point.

@rauliruegas , what would you suggest?

On December 3rd I am traveling to New York City and on the way we are stopping at Soundsmith to audition the strain gauge cartridge. If I decide to go with that it comes with a dedicated phono stage. For a moving coil phonostage I was looking at the Channel D Lino C, the transimpedance unit. I would probably try a My Sonic Lab cartridge to go with it. 

@lewm , Actually, right now I am using 48 dB/oct slopes with a cut off of 100 Hz. Yes, smaller drivers are capable of higher freuquencies.  The "speed" of a woofer is indicted by it's frequency response as I said before. Otherwise a subwoofer's sound is not dictated by speed as long as you stay away from it's limits. 12" woofers generally are good to 1000 Hz and we go nowhere near that. With the right crossover and time correction you can match subwoofers to any loudspeaker. 

I can get you over your digital phobia in a heart beat. Who knows. Maybe next time you wander towards Vermont :-) 

 

Dear @mijostyn  : I hope you don't pull the trigger on that kind of SG cartridge because make no sense to play LP recorded with the RIAA eq. curve through a dedicated phono stage with no inverse RIAA eq...

 

Just saying,

R.

I have the Soundsmith Strain Gauge, got one used about a month ago.  SG does not use RIAA or any kind of normal phono stage because it is not any kind of normal cartridge.

MM and MC both are generators that generate a voltage by moving. The faster they move the greater the voltage. SG does not work that way at all. What it does, the cantilever is connected to strain sensors that detect deflection. These are used to modulate a voltage coming in from the SG preamp. So the preamp generates the voltage, the cartridge modulates it (similar to the way a tube acts as a valve) and the resulting signal comes back into the preamp where it is amplified. 

Because of the way this works it requires no RIAA equalization. One of its many advantages over the conventional approach.

Overall it is a nice step up from Koetsu Black Goldline/Herron VTPH2A. With one exception, the low end is a bit weak in comparison. In terms of tracking though it is darn near seamless. Recordings that seemed to have hopelessly large amounts of sibilance now sound like the normal level of sibilance you would expect from a real live person. Percussion in particular is tracked exceptionally well. Listening to SG confirms Koetsu has a real talent for tailoring resonance. The Black Goldline may be entry level Koetsu but it truly is a wonderful cartridge. The SG on the other hand gives the distinct impression of listening to the master tape.

SG also has some nice features like auto-mute and a built-in 12Hz filter. Its main weakness would seem to be the power supply, which can be upgraded with SBooster, Farad, etc. 

@millercarbon , Correct MC, when the gauge is stressed it changes resistance which modulates the supplied voltage which is subtracted afterwards leaving only the signal. Messing with the power supply might not be a good thing. If the voltage subtracted is not exactly equal to the voltage added you will get a dc offset. If your amps go down to DC you could have fried woofer for dinner. If run through a preamp this might filter the DC out.

I do not think it is weak bass but rather exaggerated highs supposedly a hangover from the RIAA curve. Several reviews have noticed this. I can correct for it so it is no worry for me. Weak bass I won't tolerate. If I can't feel the bass drum beat that would kill it for me.

@rauliruegas , you did not make a suggestion for a phono stage or comment on the Lino C. I'll be taking 5 records I know very well down with me. I should be able to pick up any major problem depending on the system Mr Ledermann is using. I won't spend that kind of money if I am not completely comfortable with it. I am also very captivated by the transimpedance approach to amplifying a moving coil cartridge. The only problem is that it limits you to very low impedance cartridges. I have no problem with this as there are many excellent low impedance cartridges. I read uniformly good things about the MySonicLab cartridges then there is Lyra and Ortofon. The new Verismo looks very interesting. The My Sonic Ultra Eminant Ex with an impedance of 0.6 ohms is perfect for a transimpedance stage.