Why do all Mahler recordings seem too bright?


Yes - I may be exaggerating but I haven’t yet found any recordings of his symphonies that properly balance the extra treble energy that are often part of the dynamic swings.  Part of the problem may be that I’m not sure I yet actually “like” Mahler’s music though there are moments that are exquisite.  But, I can’t get through a whole piece because the recordings hurt my ears.  

As a side note - I have been on both sides of a microphone - having been a musician in the past and also having recorded/mixed a number of orchestral concerts at a performing arts center.  Pre-pandemic I would go to orchestral concerts regularly. So - I do have at least some reference.

I have some recordings (they were given to me) that are positively unlistenable (a DG recording of his 5th may be singularly the worst recording I’ve heard).

I thought the hi res versions of San Francisco by MTT might be the ticket.  While better, they still seem too bright and harsh to me.

Perhaps it’s my system that’s too bright, or perhaps something else is going on but I’ve plenty of other classical music that sounds better. We’ll recorded jazz and acoustic, too. 

Of course I can find poor recordings in any genre, but I’d welcome recommendations from my fellow forumites of some Mahler recordings that I might try.  I’d love to be able to listen to the closing moments of the 2nd at reasonable volume - without cringing.  

 

 

mgrif104

Mahler included funeral marches in his symphonies and also use a large number of brass instruments. So I am not surprised some poorly done recording sounding "bright." However, there are many Mahler recordings CDs and LPs that sounds well balanced from top to bottom without any edginess or harshness.Some of the DGG recordings can sound bright, but not limited to just Mahler's work.

Since you said you're listening to Hires, you're either listening to CD or streaming digital. I wanted to expand on the mention of DG recordings. DG was way behind other record labels when converting from analogue to digital. Known for their multi-mic and close-mic'd techniques, early digital sounded bright, sometimes harsh, especially the brass section. Some 1980's CDs nearly make my ears bleed, and I have a well dialed-in system. There was good advice above to try some other recordings. A good quality master is key to reproducing classical or any music using acoustic instruments accurately and realistically.

Eventually, DG digital improved but I wouldn't consider it audiophile quality. I've found MTT recordings to be high quality, very listenable, even with their high-end extension. 

I wouldn't start changing your components, although cables do make a difference and you said yours are new and may need more run-in time. I think you should check for any vibration coming from your system. Components need to be isolated from the shelves they sit upon. Are you using any anti-vibration footers or devices? I listen to classical almost exclusively and couldn't get rid of the brightness until I removed vibration from my system. Vibration from the DAC and CDP contribute most to poor reproduction of digital. 

There are many high quality classical recordings, keep in mind early digital may have problems. I love old recordings of the great maestros and their orchestras. But sometimes I want to hear high quality so I seek out record labels and orchestras which have been recorded and mastered well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

loweride57: You hit the nail on DG. My digital front-end is not great, but should be okay for most recordings. I have Cary 303/200 with Burr Brown PCM1704 DAC and I also have two Audio research DACs, DAC2 and DAC3. DAC2 has Ultra Analog D20400 chip set and DAC3 has a crystal Semiconductor delta-sigma DAC with tubes.

 

But some of my DG recordings are ear-bleeding kind including one by Annie-Sophie Mutter "Carmen-Fantasie" with Levine conducting Weiner Phil. This is a modern recording with 4D Audio, whatever that is. If volin is not properly miked, then it can sound harsh including mass violins as well. However, Bruckner's 4th by Abbado and Wiener Phil and Mahler's #1 also by Abbado with BPO on DG sounds fantastic. I have accepted that not every recording is going to sound great. As long as I can get most of my recordings to sound good/great, I am fine. Thanks for the suggestions.

@pwerahera 

You're welcome. It's unfortunate that DG had many of the greatest talent and performances and were unable to achieve the SQ of Decca, Philips, etc.

Regarding Levine, I consider him an excellent Mahlerian, I don't think I have any of his DG but have many of his RCA CDs (very good quality). But there it is, DG engineers managed to make the VPO sound bad, as they did too often. Abbado's Mahler with the VPO sounds wonderful, as does his early BPO. I believe some of the recordings are from the 70's and would have been recorded analogue. His BPO circa 2000 was DG digital and is quite listenable with very good performances, although the over-micd orchestra is rather 2-dimensional.

I feel the same way as you, there are some recordings that I don't listen to, even with my well set up digital playback. With streaming it's easy to find other performances with good SQ.

@lowrider57 thanks.

I think you’re right about needing to tame the vibration coming in to my gear. That seems to me to be the most obvious - it’s harsh on the top end when the dynamics are loud. I’m pretty sure it’s not my amp clipping though it sounds like it.  As I don’t have any control for that in place, I’ll start there. My local dealer should be delighted to sell me more gear.

I also stand by my other comment that many recordings are brighter than they ought to be.  Treble energy dissipates in the concert hall. However,  the way orchestras are recorded - with a mic at most stands - does not recreate the balance heard mid hall. The mics are capturing what the musician might have heard, but not the audience.  

Like some others here, I have many wonderful performances of great music performed by stellar ensembles but recorded under the DG label.  The sonics are beyond disappointing.  Fortunately, Qobuz has brought to my chair a fabulous array of alternatives - and I needed help from this group here to sort through them to find some that are better balanced.  

 Best,