Great thread! I love my older Altec's and use them everyday. Concentric drivers are my preference and of couse high efficency. Large Heil AMT's and JBL's good too, even at low to moderate volume levels.
If a " system " cannot do this, I move on........
I have been advocating on here for some time, that horn speakers ( properly designed, tweeked, executed and set up ) are the only speakers that my brain and ears find acceptable, for the enjoyment of music listening. My listening standard has been live, unamplified music, for now over 50 years. I have also stated on many occasions, that as an audiophile ( as well as being a music listener ), that we are hindered by the recordings themselves, minimizing what we actually are hearing. There has been much talk lately about engineers using " auto tune " ( specifically with vocalists ). Adele ( I am a fan ), with her new hit " Easy On Me ", does not use auto tune, and I am thrilled. Besides being a great singer, she sounds " natural ", less processed. Most recordings in the past 20 years, have used this other electronic " equalization " if you will, that we find embedded in out prescious recordings. The strive for perfection, that " audio nirvana ", we all seek, with the purchase of a new speaker, amplifier, cables, etc., gets us only so far. So yes, dynamics and details are very important to me. Tone, coherence and spatiality are also very important. But the reality is, our recordings, by the time we receive / hear them ( whatever format ), have been severly altered from being close to the real thing. Yet, audiophiles continue to spend big bucks on their gear, their rooms ( their systems ), to get to that place of enjoyment. The title of this thread, " If a system cannot do this, I move on ", has a specific meaning. What I listen for, most of all, with every recording I listen to, is an engagenment between me, and the performers. Following the individual rhythms and musical lines, by the artists, is the number one factor I strive to hear. My system allows for this. My question is : how many of you actually listen for this, or even know what I am speaking of. My personal experience listening to so many high priced systems, has been very disappointing in using this criteria. I am not anticipating this thread to develop into a very large or popular one, but I have not participated in Agon for a while, and I just wanted to shine a light on a subject that is crucial to us and our time listening to music, which some of us spend much time doing. Enjoy, and be well. Always, MrD.
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I just listened to " Romantic Warrior ", and the playing of these 4 ARTISTS is simply uncanny. NO, they are not in my room, as I know and am aware of, a recording is what I am listening to. 1st, the total lack of any noise, distortion, hiss, hum, at full throttle( music not playing ). Now, the quickness, the agility, the sharp, non compressed, slurred transients, the balanced tonal richness and coherence, the " tightness " of all 4 members playing in sync together.......just wonderful. This recording, in my opinion, is a real test. Enjoy ! |
One of my favorite albums Romantic Warrior. When Chick (RIP) runs that synthesizer note down to the basement on Medieval Overture my piloerectors go nuts. Great recordings are not accidents, they are art. Great music systems are not accidents either. The very best are always intentional and they can take a multitude of forms arriving at surprisingly different but valid results. One characteristic they all have is the ability to separate instruments and voices in space with nothing but silence in between. "Talk About Suffering" is an acapella folk song on John Renbourn's A Maid in Bedlam album sung by 6 individuals with unique voices. This stunning recording will plant 6 individuals on a stage in front of you, the distance depending on the system. Each singer is an individual on stage with silence in between. Each so well delineated that you can actually listen to one singer at the exclusion of the others, a sonic hologram. In a less than optimal situation the singers become blurred together. The Cherubini String Quartets by The Melos Quartet on Archive is another example of near perfect imaging, each instrument clearly identifiable as an entity in space. Four individuals with one brain. Steely Dan, Countdown to Ecstasy is IMHO the best Steely Dan recording. On a great system it is an amazing ride. In many instances, particularly large concerts (big venues) a great system can sound better than the live performance. I saw Tower of Power recently at the Hampton Casino Ballroom. It was a great performance but sonically it was a loud mono blur with boomy bass. The live 50 Years of Tower of Power album is a recent recording of the same playlist. The bass is detailed and authoritative. Each instrument and voice is clearly delineated. Turn up the loud dial and you are right there in a smaller venue with great acoustics. Eyes closed I can see the band on stage exactly where they were planted live, Blu Ray not necessary. Can a system based on horn loudspeakers perform at this level? You bet. But, the system has to be intelligently designed to perform at this level. It is 90% about the speakers and room. It is perhaps 8% about amplification and 2% everything else. Does the program source matter? Yes, the recording and mastering. Analog or digital, both can perform just fine if the recording and mastering are appropriate for the source. Anyone who boasts one or the other is biased. Digiphobes are an interesting group considering 99% of the modern music they are listening to is digitized. If the disavow all digital music they are going to miss a lot of great music that will playback on a great system just fine. I would not divide speakers into Horn, Dynamic, planar magnetic or ESL. I think it is more useful to divide speakers into point source and Line source as it tells you more about how the speaker is going to image. I prefer line source, dipole ESLs as I have been working with them for decades and am comfortable dealing with them in terms of room acoustics and amplification. If I were to go point source I would look seriously at horns because you have more control over dispersion. IMHO omnidirectional speakers are a PITA requiring more intense room treatment. As Harry Pearson defined it, it is all about finding the Absolute Sound whichever way you travel. |
@mijostyn, some interesting thoughts on the subject, and agree on the musical choices. IME, live performances that are amplified can be exciting, as seeing a favorite band live is awesome, but a smaller venue without amplification is " dabomb ". I have never heard a hifi system approach this sense of realism, and I blame the source ( recordings ), as I have stated many times in my posts. However, I enjoy every recording I listen to, because I listen past the recording quality, and envelop myself with the artists, and the story they are telling. With an audio system, the shape and size of the stage, the musician localization, and the distance between me and the band ( the imaging thing, etc. ), which is all important, becomes 2ndary to me, as I feel, the performance and the playing, is why I am listening. Many systems I have heard, can be very " spatial ", but do not connect me to the musicianship. You mention Chick as being the standout to you, but Stanley, Al and Lenny are all standouts. A great system, imo, allows you to hear them as individuals, and convey the togetherness of them as a whole. Thank you for your participation, and enjoy ! |
Hi @mrdecibel , Yes it is very important point you are talking about. The system which help you feel interpretation. But sadly most of audiophiles don’t care about it as well about natural instruments tone. Probably, because that, low sensitive box speakers (lack of micro dynamics and texture, sound dead) and belt drive turntables (at lease most of them - kill rhythm nuances) so popular today. |
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