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Streaming, Optimization and compromises

So, find out Covid hit some family members, Christmas called off so here at home with time on hands.

 

First off, this thread not for objectivists for whom general service computer good enough, heard your objections prior, no need to repeat.

 

Recently I've come to realization my extreme optimized mac mini will become obsolete sometime in near future. So once again investigating future server replacement.

 

First off, any quality server solution requires good power supply, whether internal or external, pure lps or combo of lps and switching such as Antipodes offers.

 

Now we come to output, I'm going to concentrate on the two most common outputs available, usb and ethernet. The first is usb, an inherently compromised digital audio interface. So we have a number of ways usb implemented in servers, usb directly off motherboard and various schemes for usb optimization. Directly off motherboard is serious compromise, noise inherent to motherboard, add to that running added processes to motherboard, therefore,  need to act as streamer in addition to server, which adds even more noise. Also, using motherboard power supply and motherboard clocking, all are serious compromises. Now, we can optimize usb output either internal or external, dedicated power supplies and clocking can improve usb out. In spite of all this, still have inherent liabilities of usb.

 

And now we come to ethernet out, a superior solution in my experience. I've bridged thunderbolt as ethernet out on my mac mini, far superior sound quality to the motherboard usb out. While I can't directly speak to superiority of ethernet to usb outputs on all servers, for sake of discussion I'll presume this to be true. My reasoning for this is with ethernet out one has option for FMC (fiber) and outboard streamer. Fiber eliminates all noise prior to FMC and outboard streaming relieves motherboard of those duties and isolates many choices of optimized streamer and dedicated power supplies for those steamers. These streamers will also optimize usb with dedicated clock. Your could also have many options of streamer/dac with ethernet out.

 

The way I see it, even ethernet out is somewhat compromised in that in order to take advantage of fiber's advantages one must use FMC. I'm now beginning to see fiber output on servers, Sonictransporter I9 is one I know of. Advantage of this is eliminating clutter in form of one FMC and attendant lps, although in my case requires FMC adapter.

 

At this point, I'd suggest ultimate streaming solution would be fiber out server to fiber capable streaming dac, lowest noise and reduction of clutter. Until this happens I see all present solutions as compromised to some degree. As far as my top choices for off the shelf solutions at this very moment. Antipodes, Innuos both have ethernet out options, both compromised usb outs except on highest level models. Mojo Audio Deja Vu has both optimized usb and ethernet on board.

 

What do others have to say in regard to my criticisms of usb outputs vs ethernet outs? Have any of you directly compared optimized usb to optimized ethernet outs on same server in your own setup? My take is usb meaningless, and if ethernet out is preferred setup, most server moves will be lateral for me. Doubtless  better usb out solutions available vs my  lousy mac mini usb outs, again, this not part of my question. Also, I'm not looking at streaming dacs in this equation. I'm happy with present dac with optimized usb in at this point. My discussion is only meant to compare server usb vs ethernet out interfacing with usb dacs.

sns
sonic79
80 posts
 

I'll be building my own music server in the next month. Having enough processing power for upsampling to DSD, and implementing fiber optic are priorities. All components will be in a fanless case to minimize audible and electrical noise.

The server will utilize a Solarflare fiber NIC, and a JCAT Femto ethernet card. I have a streaming DAC with RJ-45 input so will be running cat6 UTP straight from server to DAC. Fiber optic into server from either Uptone EtherRegen or basic FMC. Ethernet cards like the JCAT have upgraded clocks as well as LP4 Molex connectors to be powered by separate 5v power supply. No need for power from motherboard. JCAT, Pink Faun, Taiko all have USB cards with same features if USB output is needed.

RAM will be industrial grade ECC memory. Many disussions over the efficacy of ECC vs non-ECC. I believe most of the reported improvements come from the use of industrial grade memory, which has a wider operating temperature range and higher quality components. ECC less of a factor.

OS will be Linux based. Still deciding between Audiolinux, Euphony, or basic Ubuntu. Audiolinux and Euphony can boot from memory, so any noise from SSD is eliminated. Both also come loaded with Roon and HQPlayer embedded.

Power supply also still undecided. Fanless SMPS with DC-ATX converter on the cheap side, HDPlex ATX LPS more expensive, Taiko DC-ATX converter with unregulated LPS more expensive yet.

For me, building my own server is the way to go. Look inside most of these high-end bespoke servers and you will see motherboards from Asus or Supermicro, and processors from Intel or AMD. Their proprietary OS's are all Linux based. These servers are merely computers at the end of the day, most built with off the shelf components. DIY saves cost and allows for total customisation. You have freedom to switch components and software at will.

Of course this option not ideal for people with no ability or interest in DIY. For them a turn-key solution from any of the top brands is ideal. Nothing wrong with that. It all accomplishes the same thing.

sns OP
3,256 posts
 

@sonic79 I'm leaning diy route as well, doubt any of the moderate priced off the shelf better what I have.  What motherboard would you be using? I too have heard the industrial grade memory and ssd preferable. I wasn't aware Roon embedded in that software, good to know!

 

Scratch build would be way I'd go too, none of the easier diy builds impress me thus far. My mini tower computer is scratch built, far more capability for the money than any off the shelf variety.

sonic79
80 posts
 

@sns I have most of the parts list compiled. Like I said I'm still determining the OS and power supply. The hardware aspect is simple, basically a standard PC build. The software is more advanced. Audiolinux is based on Arch Linux which requires a bit of manual setup. Euphony is more turn-key, but also more expensive.

Processor will be an AMD Ryzen 5 5600X. A fanless case that cools the CPU passively limits the choice of processor. No fans to move air so we're relying on a heatsink. The 5600X is rated at 65W TDP, while comparable Intel processors are 105-125W TDP. AMD has a big advantage over Intel in efficiency. Running the more demanding noise shaping filters in HQPlayer requires high base clock frequency and large L3 cache. The 5600X does well in both areas. If you don't plan to use upsampling/DSP, an even less powerful processor can be used.

Motherboard will probably be an MSI B550M Mortar. I am going with micro-ATX because the case I intend to use is too small for full ATX. No worries here, as micro-ATX offers all the features I need. This MSI board has great VRM performance. If you want the most advanced VRM look into the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master, or X570S Aorus Master. They have 16-phase design. Both are full ATX, so the appropriate case is needed. All these boards are designed to accept AMD processors, so if you intend to use an Intel processor you need to research boards for that application.

One of the most expensive and highly regarded servers is the Taiko SGM Extreme. It uses an Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard with dual Intel Xeon Silver processors, industrial grade RAM, custom internal LPS, all passively cooled. There is a huge thread over at Audiophilestyle dedicated to building a DIY version of it. Cost can get extremely high depending on the hardware you use.

gdnrbob
4,447 posts
 

@sns ,

You seem to have a pretty good grip on this project.

I would suggest joining some other forums-

Audiophile Style, WBF, to name two. I think they will have a deeper understanding of your build than here.

Bob

sns OP
3,256 posts
 

@sonic79  Thanks for the info. Not sure if I'll end up using HQPlayer , can't experiment with it with present mini os, one of the issues forcing my hand on new server.

 

@gdnrbob Thanks, I'm aware of audiophilestyle, been lurking over there, was was source for most of what I learned in mac mini build. Have to check out WBF more in depth.

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