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Streaming, Optimization and compromises

So, find out Covid hit some family members, Christmas called off so here at home with time on hands.

 

First off, this thread not for objectivists for whom general service computer good enough, heard your objections prior, no need to repeat.

 

Recently I've come to realization my extreme optimized mac mini will become obsolete sometime in near future. So once again investigating future server replacement.

 

First off, any quality server solution requires good power supply, whether internal or external, pure lps or combo of lps and switching such as Antipodes offers.

 

Now we come to output, I'm going to concentrate on the two most common outputs available, usb and ethernet. The first is usb, an inherently compromised digital audio interface. So we have a number of ways usb implemented in servers, usb directly off motherboard and various schemes for usb optimization. Directly off motherboard is serious compromise, noise inherent to motherboard, add to that running added processes to motherboard, therefore,  need to act as streamer in addition to server, which adds even more noise. Also, using motherboard power supply and motherboard clocking, all are serious compromises. Now, we can optimize usb output either internal or external, dedicated power supplies and clocking can improve usb out. In spite of all this, still have inherent liabilities of usb.

 

And now we come to ethernet out, a superior solution in my experience. I've bridged thunderbolt as ethernet out on my mac mini, far superior sound quality to the motherboard usb out. While I can't directly speak to superiority of ethernet to usb outputs on all servers, for sake of discussion I'll presume this to be true. My reasoning for this is with ethernet out one has option for FMC (fiber) and outboard streamer. Fiber eliminates all noise prior to FMC and outboard streaming relieves motherboard of those duties and isolates many choices of optimized streamer and dedicated power supplies for those steamers. These streamers will also optimize usb with dedicated clock. Your could also have many options of streamer/dac with ethernet out.

 

The way I see it, even ethernet out is somewhat compromised in that in order to take advantage of fiber's advantages one must use FMC. I'm now beginning to see fiber output on servers, Sonictransporter I9 is one I know of. Advantage of this is eliminating clutter in form of one FMC and attendant lps, although in my case requires FMC adapter.

 

At this point, I'd suggest ultimate streaming solution would be fiber out server to fiber capable streaming dac, lowest noise and reduction of clutter. Until this happens I see all present solutions as compromised to some degree. As far as my top choices for off the shelf solutions at this very moment. Antipodes, Innuos both have ethernet out options, both compromised usb outs except on highest level models. Mojo Audio Deja Vu has both optimized usb and ethernet on board.

 

What do others have to say in regard to my criticisms of usb outputs vs ethernet outs? Have any of you directly compared optimized usb to optimized ethernet outs on same server in your own setup? My take is usb meaningless, and if ethernet out is preferred setup, most server moves will be lateral for me. Doubtless  better usb out solutions available vs my  lousy mac mini usb outs, again, this not part of my question. Also, I'm not looking at streaming dacs in this equation. I'm happy with present dac with optimized usb in at this point. My discussion is only meant to compare server usb vs ethernet out interfacing with usb dacs.

sns
sonic79
80 posts
 

@sns I have most of the parts list compiled. Like I said I'm still determining the OS and power supply. The hardware aspect is simple, basically a standard PC build. The software is more advanced. Audiolinux is based on Arch Linux which requires a bit of manual setup. Euphony is more turn-key, but also more expensive.

Processor will be an AMD Ryzen 5 5600X. A fanless case that cools the CPU passively limits the choice of processor. No fans to move air so we're relying on a heatsink. The 5600X is rated at 65W TDP, while comparable Intel processors are 105-125W TDP. AMD has a big advantage over Intel in efficiency. Running the more demanding noise shaping filters in HQPlayer requires high base clock frequency and large L3 cache. The 5600X does well in both areas. If you don't plan to use upsampling/DSP, an even less powerful processor can be used.

Motherboard will probably be an MSI B550M Mortar. I am going with micro-ATX because the case I intend to use is too small for full ATX. No worries here, as micro-ATX offers all the features I need. This MSI board has great VRM performance. If you want the most advanced VRM look into the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master, or X570S Aorus Master. They have 16-phase design. Both are full ATX, so the appropriate case is needed. All these boards are designed to accept AMD processors, so if you intend to use an Intel processor you need to research boards for that application.

One of the most expensive and highly regarded servers is the Taiko SGM Extreme. It uses an Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard with dual Intel Xeon Silver processors, industrial grade RAM, custom internal LPS, all passively cooled. There is a huge thread over at Audiophilestyle dedicated to building a DIY version of it. Cost can get extremely high depending on the hardware you use.

gdnrbob
4,447 posts
 

@sns ,

You seem to have a pretty good grip on this project.

I would suggest joining some other forums-

Audiophile Style, WBF, to name two. I think they will have a deeper understanding of your build than here.

Bob

sns OP
3,256 posts
 

@sonic79  Thanks for the info. Not sure if I'll end up using HQPlayer , can't experiment with it with present mini os, one of the issues forcing my hand on new server.

 

@gdnrbob Thanks, I'm aware of audiophilestyle, been lurking over there, was was source for most of what I learned in mac mini build. Have to check out WBF more in depth.

sonic79
80 posts
 

@sns That's one of the main reasons that prompted me to build a server. My current computer is too old to update to newest version of Mac OSX, which is required for HQPlayer. Roon has upsampling, and I have compared native PCM to upsampling to DSD128 (my DAC is limited to DSD128 over PCM). I prefer upsampling to DSD, hence my requirement for adequate processing power. PCM is more forward sounding with more thickness in the midrange, but has a level of fuzziness. DSD pushes the soundstage rearward and removes this fuzz. Overall sounds cleaner, more air, with more perceived resolution. But this is a discussion for another topic.

HQPlayer has even more powerful upsampling than Roon. The player is supposedly better sounding than Roon, as well. I'm sure you are aware of the benefits of upsampling to DSD external of DAC. Delta-sigma DAC's like your Musetec automatically convert PCM to DSD internally. Powerful software like HQPlayer does the conversion external of DAC, and does so more effectively. This is a process removed from the DAC, instead done by the server which is more suited for the role.

sns OP
3,256 posts
 

Well, I certainly don't like Roon dsp, reason I wanted to try HQplayer. Also want to give Audirvana Studio a try, slightly preferred sound quality of older version Audirvana vs Roon back in that time. Audirvana requires newer os as well.

 

My mini can be upgraded to latest mac os, my issue is since so many processes disabled worried about  os upgrade. I may have to go back and undo all the optimizations, including dos command optimizations to have glitch free os upgrade.

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