Soundstage depth how to improve? Shootout


Yes, soundstage depth behind the speakers, how can we improve this, and what equipment is most important for this?

Deeper speakers have more sound depth?

Toe-in speakers makes it worse?

Has tube quality something to do with it?

Cables not, that is a fact!

Combination/match preamp/amp?

Distance speakers from backwall have impact, that is also a fact!

Before I had a unison research sinfonia integrated(2×ecc82+2×ecc83 +4×6550) and the depth was much better, the depth behind the speakers was about 6 to 8 foot behind the speakers by estimate.

Now I have a Coincident statement line stage mk2(2×101D) with triode corporation trx-m300(2×310A+1×274B+1×300B’s) amps, and it is maybe half that??

The difference is almost 20k$.

Shoot me, I don’t know....

Speakers: living voice obx-rw2

Digi: bryston bda2 + bdp2

 

klappertjedundas

@klappertjedundas Are your images dimensional, in that they have proportional width and depth. If they are fully dimensional ss positioning shouldn't be much bother. Sounds to me like you're getting FLAT and FORWARD ss, that would be a bother. There was recent thread here that asked specifically about where vocals located in relation to speaker front baffle, I recall most members systems ss located just behind front baffles. This is not abnormal ss!

 

I hear two perspectives with good system setups. One is more forward ss, illusion of performers in room, second is more recessed ss, illusion of performers in studio or recording venue. You may be person who prefers second perspective. Or, your image dimensionality is lacking.

 

How did the imaging from the Unison sound comparatively to present setup did individual images have more depth. I'd find it hard to believe that push pull would have greater dimensional imaging than present setup. Your should have top flight imaging with your pre and 300b amp!

 

Have you attended to AC in your room, therefore, dedicated circuits, conditioning if needed, power cords? Bad AC greatly affects ss and imaging.

 

One can also manipulate ss with speaker positioning, further out into room would help deepen stage, more toe in could help. Room treatments, front wall behind speaker important, reflective surfaces would bring ss forward, diffusion and/or absorption would be worth playing with. I know of two treatments I can guarantee will manipulate your ss to greatest effect I've experienced, one is Synergistic HFT, the other Schumann Resonators. Put a SR on front wall, I guarantee it will suck that phantom center image rearward.

 

In the end, you may just be one of those people preferring more recessed ss, but this usually sign something about sound quality is bothersome. Forward ss can sound in your face if sound quality not exactly right. Once you get your system to sound like flesh and blood performers in room chances are you'll love being closer to performers. The fact you need them to be at distance from you is sign of something amiss. Your new amp and pre are higher resolving than prior setup, this is exposing some flaw elsewhere. Nothing wrong with your equipment here, both are top flight performers!

My soundstage create also imaging filling the room in some recordings more and in some other less, and an intimate impression like in my 7 headphones and better...I will neverr use them anymore...The sound is near me like with an headphone but in the room out of my head  and disconnected from the speakers complketely...

If there is any connection between the sound and the speakers, your room is not under control...

Simple...

Acoustic is Queen and key...

@klappertjedundas - what are the dimensions of your room?

How far are the speakers from the wall (behind the speakers)

How far away from the listening position is the wall behind the listening position

RE: your statement -

Cables not, that is a fact!

By that - Do you mean - you believe cables will not impact image?

I’m just wondering, because my cables have made the biggest impact to the imaging in my system - much more than anything else - for both digital and analogue components. But I had to get the right cables :-).

So I am also curious to know - what cables are you using?

Cheers - Steve

@sns 

My room almost sounds symmetrical, means the soundstage is left and right way outside the speakers, depend on recording but sometimes about 4 foot. Q-sound recordings are also 90% symmetrical and completly left and right of me, almost behind me.

Vocals are between the speakers, a bit behind. Instruments and vocals on left or right speaker are little forward. With a choir in a church or an Orchestra I was used to hear(with the Unison Research Sinfonia) it mostly behind the speakers also wide, you could hear the room or church room in the recording like a big cloud. Now that is quit flat, not behind not forward, wide yes! I like live performance a bit upfront and choir/Orchestra a bit with room behind. The Unison had a deeper, but absolute no wider ss, and is a bit darker sounding but very comprehensive, but not as detailed. Give me warmth, musicality, live, micro/macro dynamics😁.

Cables ac are jps power ac+ for amps and cardas golden reference for pre and jps the digital ac for dac.

Links are PhantomCable gold and Nordost Frey2...all rca.

Speakercables are PhantomCable gold.

The frey will go...too detailed and not comprehensive and musical enough.

Ac is clean, not much around here...small village.

Treatment I will do.

@mahgister 

Headphones is a good startingpoint for people who want to start the hifi hobby, you learn cheaply about a lot aspects about sound. It safes a lot $$ in the end.

 

 

@williewonka 

Speakers are 10 feet apart

Listening position is 11 feet from baffle and 4 feet from back window😪

Speakers(rear) are almost 6 feet from backwall.

Cables improve coherence and imaging sounds, but minimal effect ss in my opinion.