Is Rap a valid musical form?

@mglik 

As said in my OP, Kendrick Lamar’s “To Pimp a 🦋 Butterfly” is as sophisticated musically as any music I know. The musical themes evolve and develop including a brilliant rhythmic rap and sound effects that create “deep and broad emotional and intellectual content”. If you check it out keep an open mind and judge it in its entirety. I think you will find it interesting if not gripping. In my superficial and introductory dive into Rap, it is firmly in the genre yet unique.

So, over the weekend, I had a chance to listen to most of it. 

jssmith207 did a pretty good run down. 

The sax player, Kamasi Washington, and the bass player, Thundercat, are good players, and I have recordings (non rap) with them, which are quite good.

And while I can say, this album might be creatively a step up from most rap I have heard, it still has all the drawbacks of the genre I have a problem with. Simplistic song structure, unsophisticated harmonies, mediocre musicianship (even though Kamasi and Thundercat play on this album, they don't do anything their skills require), repetitive, etc. Sure, there is some real creativity here, just not in the realm of composition and musicianship. 

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but rap, even this recording, is about as musically simple as music can get. Even, with the various layering, sound effects, and overdubs, etc. 

Seriously, there are genres and subgenres of music, with ridiculously complex time signatures, complex chord progressions (and more than 3 or 4 chords per song), with very little or no repetition, with musicians that have otherworldly levels of musicianship, and they are still able to convey deep and broad levels of emotional and/or intellectual content, even with no lyrics at all. 

@simonmoon maybe try the group Tool?

@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating 'Blondie' with Debbie that they made up buttons saying 'Blondie Is A Group'.... 

@simonmoon - good that you checked it out! But does quality, enjoyable music have to be 'musically complex' or 'sophisticated'? 

Personally, that's not what I listen to music for. I've heard way too many 'virtuosos' who do not interest me even a little but cure insomnia for me very reliably! 😁

It's hard for me to care how well or with what sophistication they play their instruments if I don't like the music they play on them. Some music I love is like that; much of it is not. Nothing against it or any other genre; I don't require music to be to my particular taste to consider it good or valid. 

@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating ’Blondie’ with Debbie that they made up buttons saying ’Blondie Is A Group’....

When the lead singer is a stunner, it is hard to see that there is a group…

Old boss was telling me about his first date with his wife. They were in Santa Barbara and roller blading on the sidewalk. They passed a woman and fellow going the other way, and he said he just about fell over seeing the woman.
The (now) Mrs said, “You don’t see that every day!”
And he said, “I agree.”
She then said, “In fact I have never seen a one legged guy on skate(s).”
He said that he was surprized when he turned around and “shu-nuf” the guy was on one leg.

@larsman

Seems to me that criticizing hip-hop for lack of 'musical creativity' or whatever, is like criticizing a symphony because you don't like tympani - it's not the point of the music. It's about rhythm and words and the rhythm of words....

I don't understand this post.

My criticism of rap and hip-hop is for exactly the reasons you mention. There is so much more to music than rhythm and words.

Why is criticizing rap for it's main attributes not fair game? 

I criticize pop for it's simplistic chord progressions, its repetitiveness, its reliance of a simple hook, its lack of harmonic sophistication. 

And I criticize country and mainstream rock, for much he same reasons.