What is Tight Bass?

@realworldaudio, I’ll mildly object to be called dumb, but perception of individuals kinda gets lost in the stew.....😏

As one who runs amt’s, it’s a snap to employ a sub for the bottom ’boom’, but hard to source a mid-bass>upper bass (or low mid) that can keep pace yet keep the ’slam’ at bay with more apropos levels...

Varies with the program played, but... smaller drivers with SS equipment seem to work best, as you note, in this range.
And one can tweak the ’slam’ to taste; eq in my religion is not a sin. :)

Regards, J

@asvjerry Hello J, I am a little surprised by your reaction, esp as I do not know who you are. I did not call, nor presume anyone dumb. I'm sorry if I have offended you or anyone: in my two posts above I have expressed positives and negatives for BOTH technologies (tube & SS). Forum members, if you thought that I was out of line in my posts please let me know.

J, you have described a situation that takes exploration to a very different perspective than the one @ghdprentice and I were exploring in our posts. When we employ a sub, we can alter the low end response to almost any degree, so that makes tube vs solid state issue regarding slam and tightness quite irrelevant as adding a sub and playing with levels and energy delivery can be done with both technologies. 

Kind regards,

Janos

What does a kick drum sound like? What does an electric guitar sound like?

There is accurate bass then there is everything else and all of us including myself are listening to everything else.

Bass is the hardest part of the audio spectrum to get right. Everything wants to resonate at bass frequencies, rooms interfere, distortion in drivers increases dramatically and getting drivers and electronics to put out realistic levels below 40 Hz is difficult and expensive. 

I use an unamplified upright bass to judge accuracy. Still, each one sounds different. Less is more. Bass tends to get a lot of garbage added to it like enclosure resonance. Below 40 Hz it is more about feeling than hearing. You have to learn to listen to what you are feeling. A good example is listen to computer speakers. You hear harmonics of bass tones which will give you the bass line but you feel absolutely nothing. Bass is very powerful. When you get a chance get as close as you can to an upright bass. It is not all that loud but the lowest notes will shake your gut. That is what you want to get out of your system. Good luck, you'll need it. 

@ghdprentice

Yes, I was shocked and perplexed when I first moved from a good ss (Pass x350) to a tubed Audio Research Reference 160s. Two things immediately struck me… what a big reduction of slam… and how much better and more articulate the bass was… and well, the Pass is never going back into my system.

Imagine my surprise when I bought an inexpensive Bob Latino ST-70 just to dip my foot into the tube world and finding that it bested my SS amp (CJ 2500A). I sold the Cj and never looked back.

@realworldaudio

the main barrier to good bass was looseness,...

Solid state amplifiers give a boost to midbass, and have relatively lean deep bass, upper bass, and very thin midrange, and then a shrill top end.

So many good points that its hard to point out just one. But your description of the modern SS amp is spot on to my experience.I first noticed it in the late 80’s when I bought a Luxman R115 to replace my Harmon Kardon 730. I disliked the Lux and sold it & got the 730 back in service. But you are right about early amp’s bass being very loose. I never heard a Pioneer that didn’t have flabby bass.

In 2000, I started putting together a better system but never found a SS amp that was satisfactory. It was an inexpensive tube amp that gave me back the bass line I had been seeking.

FWIW, I am making my judgements here based on years of playing drums and having the bass amp right next to me I also spent many years in the clubs & festivals listening to amplified and unamplified. music. Bass is not sharp, quick or tight. Bass is more rounded with body and a slight amount of sustain which I call overhang. The exception is Funk where the bass player snaps and slaps the strings. But it is a technique used and not its natural sound.

@mijostyn 

Bass is the hardest part of the audio spectrum to get right.

That is my opinion also. maybe because so much of the music rides on the bass

@realworldaudio ..Janos, no offense taken just a mild rebuke made over...

"...not because they are dumb and do not recognize slam, but because the slam is overdone."

One persons' slam can be another's' restraint in the world of wham, bam, and making the orchestra seats deaf for a week. ;) *L*

'Slam' may be mixed into the final cut sent to a cutter for an LP, or just turned loose into the CDs' or streams.  What one is faced with, tube or SS, is how one reacts and responds with their selection of speakers and the 'up stream' devices one owns or wants to the replicate that in their spaces....

'Flabby bass' may be the intent of the player involved, due to the type and style of the music played, which is something I try to keep in mind upon a listen.  Certain styles have an 'approach' that, unless you know the player(s) involved begs a mind-reading skill I gave up years ago....and I'm kidding here. *G*

"Bass is the hardest part of the audio spectrum to get right." per @artemus_5 ...

... and I'll agree with that comment, SS or tubes (the latter of which I grew up with....and grew away from...).  It's possible now to mimic 'tube w/SS' and the reverse, the sharp-eared can discern the difference...along with other discrepancies I can, can't, or ignore....

So much of what we desire in our 'personal audio experience' is tied up in what we expect to hear and/or want to, imho...  Tube vs. SS are basically responding much the same (since electron flow is roughly speed of light, +/-), it's the way a particular type of 'valve' (glowing elements in glass vs. hot silicone with 'amendments') effect what's flowing through them.

I prefer upping a processors' speed and peripheral's to rolling tubes....which is my excuse and I'll stick with it. ;) 

Yes, a different perspective.  (...joking now..)  I'm sure you've noticed there's a lot of that going on here...*L*

Viva the differences, frankly....but...when I have the opportunity to listen to someone else's system, or an item at a dealer...

A grain of salt may not be enough, and usually a variety of other spices may help.

Mid-lag is a concern of mine; 'slam' I determine with dB personally.
If it exists at high levels, it ought to be noticeable at low ones'.

..at least the RTA's will notice...;)

Again, no offense taken...*G*

(Don't own a gun, but have access to a Real fencing foil....*L*...other than this keyboard.... :)...)