2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
decooney
1,905 posts
 

@invalid "Well tube amps certainly seem to sound different than high current soild state through Heil AMTs and I’ve done videos that easily prove this. Everything was held the same. The Vanessa tracks are within 0.1 dB and the SRV are within 0.5 dB using pink noise as a source."

They sure do. 👍 The first time I heard it myself, was an unexpected pleasant surprise. :) The few times I reverted back to higher current solid state amplification, it did not take long to put the mono tube amps back into play. Fun and interesting.

heretobuy
120 posts
 

Because we have heard it with our own ears so many times it has become commonplace to us, but it is in truth quite miraculous that you can send an electrical impulse (or whatever it is) through a wire from one box into two other boxes and the sound of an orchestra comes out. Since the thing is magical altogether it’s not really hard to believe that different magicians can do the trick differently.

rudyb
141 posts
 

I don’t think many people will argue if there are / are not sound differences between amps, given a certain minimum price level. We can quickly agree there are ... who knows simply because some amps may deliberately have been built to not sound 100% "neutral’.

It’s more that some equipment is (highly) overpriced. Which in my definition is the case when the price is multiple factors over the net worth of the sum of the components used. Of course this is deliberate, targeting a certain public with deep pockets.

Also there’s the law of the reduced added value. I don’t think an amp priced 10.000 sounds five times better than a 2000 one. Those last eight thousand may render you some very tiny nuances, if any at all.

The amp’s casing may be a ’work of art’, which might be worth the extra 8000 to some. Your resemblance to expensive ’jewelry watches’ is spot on.

antigrunge2
1,331 posts
 

Why limit yourself to amp/preamp. While certainly not ‘ending the debate’ the same applies to in no particular order: dacs, cartridges, streamers, cd-players … The acknowledged measurements of performance are at best a limited subset of parameters for human hearing acuity. Another point of note: the substantial impact of improvements to the mains supply (starting with a separate line, improvements via better grounding, power filtering and conditioning, whether by active or passive mains conditioners, power strips and cables or additional devices such as Shunyata, Lessloss, Furutech NFT et al) is never included in any measurements.

Any well sorted system is the result of multiple fine tuning steps extracting maximum synergy from its components. This is again totally ignored when putting individual units onto the ‘scientific’ test benches.

bobpyle
64 posts
 

Do not forget the component synergy of a complete system, right from electricity supply to brain. The matrix of possibilities is massive. A small change is system set up will change the sound of a system in favour of one component, e.g. amplifier brand over another. 

A-B testing in your own system at home is useful for finding the sound that YOU are listening for. A-B testing in any other situation is not very helpful, save to possibly allow one to make a shortlist of products to audition at home.

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