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Amir and Blind Testing

Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro
pinthrift
209 posts
 

Objective measured findings vs Subjective, time-tested listening help fuel our hobby, often with much howling.  Thanks, chayro, in requesting calm on this topic.

As an over-ripened audio guy, I plead guilty to "expected" changes in adding, replacing or removing gear, plus burn-in factors.  I've done a ton of A / B comparisons, including assisting cable manufacturer evals, both in-house and in my rooms.  Despite this seasoning, there are always unexpected twists and turns.  TIDAL updates, for example, can change streaming quality settings, without notice.  

There is certainly a place for the Amirs in our hobby.  This is the balance.  We each possess the most refined listening tools created, however.  "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."  Trust, and utilize laser rulers.

More Peace, Pin

 

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,130 posts
 

Great post!

 

But  many people dont figure out generally even the difference and correlation between acoustic science and psycho-acoustic...

We are like RCA dog thinking the voice come from the device itself not  from the room/ears...

I could go on for pages and pages more, but the end point is that physical measurements as they stand, connected solely to engineering criteria and weighting, fail to take into consideration the capacities of the human ear and brain and generally fail to understand ’hard engineering based measurements’ limits and limited scope, in application, to the complex question at hand.

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,960 posts
 
teo_audio
 

I could go on for pages and pages more, but the end point is that physical measurements as they stand, connected solely to engineering criteria and weighting, fail to take into consideration the capacities of the human ear and brain and generally fail to understand ’hard engineering based measurements’ limits and limited scope, in application, to the complex question at hand.

That is indeed the issue, @teo_audio, and it's one that divides our community. I'm among the undecided as to the extent measurements reveal what we hear, and that just infuriates the measurementalists who essentially insist that their "science" is already perfect. That separates them from the genuine scientists and engineers, who welcome inquiry.

That...is science. Not this illiterate tail wagging the dog we see on these forums, day in and day out.

Absolutely. And it doesn't even matter which "side" of the question you're on.

This is my beef with ASR. It is clearly anti-science. It is dogmatic.

It's absurd that anyone would pretend to evaluate audio equipment yet not listen to it as part of the process. But that reveals the extent of the measurementalist's faith and as with all matters of faith, no proof is required, by definition. But that sure isn't my religion.

rtorchia's avatar
rtorchia
138 posts
 

I think Amir is excellent and had an ideal methodology. I wouldn’t buy anything that didn’t pass muster with him. ASR is an outstanding site. But, if you like million dollar cables and hyped up rubbish it isn’t the place for you.

jonwolfpell
397 posts
 

Great topic. I too agree it can take a long time to really appreciate & understand what a certain component is doing or how it sounds. Often, once you get used to that new sound, it becomes our new standard & how we think it "should"sound.  It's a strange phenomena. 

That said, comparing speakers in the same system doesn't take very long & to me, usually sound quite different. This can be due to the amp driving them or the room & set up & the synergy between it all & the speakers so it too is not a for certain thing what is creating the differences, but they are usually very clear. 

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