The sound quality from DACs - is it all the same?


I've been talking to my cousin brother about sound quality. He is a self-proclaimed expert audiophile. He says that Audio Science Review has all of the answers I will need regarding audio products.

In particular, he says an inexpensive DAC from any Chinese company will do better than the expensive stuff. He says fancy audio gear is a waste of money because the data is already bit-perfect.  All DAC chips sound the same. Am I being mislead? 

He also said that any DAC over $400 is a waste of money. Convincing marketing is at play here, he says.

He currently owns a Topping L30 headphone amplifier and D30 Pro DAC. He uses Sennheiser HD 569 headphones to listen to music.  I'm not sure what to think of them. I will report my findings after listening one day! (likely soon, once I get some free time)

- Jack 

 

 

jackhifiguy

Different types of chips, chip configurations, and most importantly output circuitry, can all influence the character and delivery of the sound. Overall quality of parts and design and overall topology all play a part. I can hear major differences with every dac in my house when swapping them out in my system (all well reviewed). And the very best one in terms of the realism and quality of stage depth, width, tonal character, clarity and accuracy happens to be the most expensive one (and it’s a $600 Chinese dac). a good system will still sound “good” with any cheap dac. But if you want to unfold dimensional and tonal potential for said system, a dac that’s designed with care (and passion) will do wonders and can even transform your system. Btw, Amir measured the Ares II as resulting in good measurements, but most modern r2r now also measure well (if that’s a concern).

To my ears, a well designed and engaging dac can set the paradigm for active listening (as opposed to “doing the dishes” passive listening).

Here are some words of wisdom from the late Charlie Hansen of Ayre

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The thing that I see over and over and over in this thread is an irrational belief in the importance of the DAC chip itself. Just about everything affect the sound of an audio product, but when it comes to DACs, I would rank (in order or sonic importance the general categories as follows:

 

1) The analog circuitry - 99.9% of all DACs are designed by digital engineers who don’t know enough about analog. They just follow the app note. The specs on the op-amps are fabulous and digital engineers are inherently seduced by the beauty of the math story. There are minor differences in the sound quality between various op-amps, but it’s kind of like the difference between a Duncan-Heinz cake mix and a Betty Crocker cake mix. 99.8% of the op-amps are used a current-to-voltage converters with the inverting input operating as a virtual ground. This is probably the worst way to use an op-amp as the input signal will cause the internal circuitry to go into slewing-limited distortion. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/anablog/4311648/Op-amp-myths-ndash-by-Barrie-Gilbert

 

With discrete circuitry, the only limit is your imagination. You are free to adjust the topology of the circuit, the brands of the parts, the active devices, the bias current in each stage - anything you can think of. Think of this as going to a world-class patisserie in Paris and seeing all the different things that can be made.

 

2) The power supplies - 99.9% of all DACs use "3-pin" power supply regulators, which are pretty much op-amps connected to a series pass transistor. Everything in #1 applies here.

 

3) The master clock - jitter is a single number assigned to measure the phase noise of an oscillator over a fixed bandwidth. It is far more i important to know the spectral distribution of the timing variations and how they correlate to audible problems. 99.9% of all DACs use a strip-cut AT crystal in a Pierce gate oscillator circuit. It’s pretty good for the money but the results will depend heavily on the implementation, particularly in the PCB layout and the power supplies (#2).

 

It’s hard to rank the rest of these so I will give them a tie score.

 

4) The digital filter - 99.9% of all DACs use the digital filter built into the DAC chip. About a dozen companies know how to make a custom digital filter based on either FPGAs or DSP chips.

 

4) PCB layout - grounding and shielding, impedance-controlled traces, return currents, and return current paths are all critical. For a complex digital PCB, 8 layers is the minimum for good results.

 

4) The DAC chip - almost everything these days is delta sigma with a built-in digital filter. Differences between different chips is one of the less important aspects of D/A converter designs. Both ESS and AKM have some special tricks to reduce out-of-band noise, which can be helpful, but not dramatic.

 

4) Passive parts - the quality of these can make a large difference in overall performance, especially for analog. Not many digital engineers sit around listening to different brands of resistors to see what sounds best.

 

These are just a few of the things that make differences in the way that a DAC will sound.

 

Hope this helps,

Charles Hansen

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thanks, great explanation from Charlie Hansen...he often gave great, simple advice and explanations here

 

The only thing that matters is whether a cheap dac and expensive dac sound the same to you.  What we think doesn't matter.  I suggest you invest in a $200 Topping DX3 Pro+ and start your journey.  If it matters, ASR said it was one of the best dacs they ever tested.  I own one and it is pretty darn good.  Buy it, listen for 6 months and then compare it to something more expensive.  Only then will you know.  What we say here about our experiences with products is meaningless as it relates to your ears.  

Astounding!

What we say here about our experiences with products is meaningless as it relates to your ears.  

Do you ever read about acoustic/psycho-acoustic relation?