Another “How to choose an arm” question

Dear @holmz : " how would I know if the upgrade is worthwhile? "

"" it offered me some substantially better sound than the SAEC WE317. ""

""" What would that do in how the sound is manifested? """

"""" first step is for me to figure out whether a new arm would make a notable difference. "

Those are your statements from your first post to the last that no one not even you can have a precise answer. Is useless asking again and again same " question ".

I think that almost all the posts here already gave you all what any one could need to decide about a change or not of tonearm.

You can have the answers you are looking for till you have the new tonearm in your room/system and make several tests against your tonearm/cartridge today combination. There is no other way, just common sense. Or decide not to change it. Is up to you.

You have not that kind of common sense due to your low knowledge level on that issue and the only way to learn is by your own: testing and testing, etc, etc. Even you posted about:

""""" It sounds like I should give up trying to understand it. """

Go for other cartridge, you are satisfied with your arm. LOMC cartridges always are a learning lesson, try it and you will learn.

R.

Raul is right. At some point you just have to jump into the water. It is what we all do.

Whether or not you hear a difference depends on how bad your situation is now and how good your hearing is. None of us can determine this. 

Your line stage gain is not the issue. It is the signal to noise ratio of your phono stage. Your line stage will be more than happy to amplify all the nose. 

Raul is right. At some point you just have to jump into the water. It is what we all do.

That was sort of the question @mijostyn … whether there were any measurements that showed the bearing chatter.
I suspect most just go for sonics, fewer are interested in whether there are actual resonances.

I’ll go slowly until I get the measurement gear and the LP.
 

Thanks! 

@holmz : " fewer are interested in whether there are actual resonances. "

Not really and I can say that many of us are the other way around.

Maybe our first target ( at least mine. ) choosing a tonearm is to choose a well damped design and the ones with tonearm removable headshell uses this design characteristics to mate in better way their cartridges testing it with different headshells.

SAEC tonearms were a non-damped design and depending of the cartridges mounted in the arm those non-damped resonances always change as change with well damped tonearms but the resonances ( that we can’t avoid. ) comes with different characteristics, more benings damaging the less the cartridge signal.

If you go for measurements as your main choice target then your choice must be the Rega RB300 or the Moerch DP6 that measured way better than SAEC.

I told you that I owned the top SAEC designs that are very good looking tonearms but terrible performers, the today " new " tonearm in reality is and old design with the same bad characteristics. I'm not questioning that SAEC is what you like, fine with me as your measurements too.

R.

@rauliruegas ​​@holmz , The way tonearms are dampened is a complicated issue with many different approaches. Some have fluid damping like the 4 Points others use magnets like my CB and the Graham arms. Many arms do pretty much nothing other than to stop their arms from ringing with damping materials like foam.  How do you tell what works? There are not any good tests for this. I am not fond of having to depend on just listening but this is one situation where there is not anything else you can do. This is going to turn some heads but what I have been doing is comparing the analog performance against a digital file using music that was remastered at the same time in both formats. What I prefer cuts both ways but in general vinyl performance is very competitive in terms of dynamics, lack of sibilance and pitch stability. Noise is always higher with vinyl but that is expected. With a good record this does not seem to influence enjoyment. I can not help but think there is a psychological draw towards vinyl because of the tradition it represents. I have been flipping records since the age of 4 with extreme enjoyment. I have been an early adaptor all my life but I can not seem to get away from vinyl in spite of it's disadvantages and expense. You may be able to teach an old dog new tricks but, it is another problem getting him to stop the old ones.