I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.


I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

russ69

Electrical measurements are important for the DESIGNER of the product...Less so for the listener who cannot interpret anyway most electrical measures...

Acoustical measurement are way more important for the LISTENER in his room...Alas! way less important sometimes for many designers...But some designer know acoustic for sure, the best one...

 

Confusing the two  situations with the same word: " measurement" then means nothing...

One man’s treasure is sometimes trash for everyone else ...

 

 

Measurements are certainly important, but I don’t think they tell the entire story.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

But if you’re looking for accuracy in terms of audio fidelity, I think measurements are very important.

 

 

@russ69 ..."One camp thinks they are finished after the measurements take place and the other camp starts going to work after that point."

 

Exactly. I too see it as a starting point for the designers with a different passion. Those who design, refine, and iterate until they truly reach engaging sound. Once they get there, it can actually measure a little worse and sound better, or only to those with open minds and ears, setting the graphs aside for a moment to listen more.

Making decisions solely on measurements is akin to judging meals only on salt content. If they have to the same salt content they must taste the same right?

My favorites are the anti tube guys saying they don’t want distortion in their system. Unless you are listening to a tone generator the distortions are what allow you to determine if the same note is coming from a trumpet or clarinet. Distortions are what cause the tonal differences between the same instruments.

Measurements are guidelines not rules of superiority. Steve Deckert at Decware is designing a new 300b amp. (I guess a two year wait just isn’t enough) He talks about his design process and while a specified circuit provides the proper current and voltage it doesn’t necessarily sound good, There is an art to this that measurements can’t provide.

In conclusion, how can what we hear be measured?  In medieval times the minor chords were knows as the Devils Chord because of the feeling it evoked. How can the feelings of emotion that music brings that be measured?

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/25/a-medieval-forbidden-musical-sequence-the-devil-in-music-or-the-devils-chord/

Great post! thanks very much...

 

In conclusion, how can what we hear be measured? In medieval times the minor chords were knows as the Devils Chord because of the feeling it evoked. How can the feelings of emotion that music brings that be measured?

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/25/a-medieval-forbidden-musical-sequence-the-devil-in-music-or-the-devils-chord/

May have to rename the site Audiokarens.

It's a measurement. It has no emotion. Amir didn't call your favorite piece of audio equipment ugly, the measurement did.

I ordered a pair of the Fiio 5 IEMs that he reviewed with very low distortion. So far I am impressed. I have also owned tube amps. I liked them too. I am not emotionally attached to any of it.

The acoustic engineer who did my listening room took a ton of measurements. It sounds fantastic. Well worth the money.

His measurements seem competent. Not scientific lab quality but competent. It's unemotional. It just is. I am sure many of you have been in a room where the person said "this sounds great" and you were thinking "this sounds awful". Do you need another person's opinion that is not your own? Why does Amir's opinion matter so much?

Let it go.

I personally find some of the measurements fascinating on speakers and headphones/IEMs. It is interesting to see the measurements and try to relate that to what I hear. They got me into equalizing headphones and IEMs too. What a difference!