I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.

+ @jjss49
+ @sns
+ @ghdprentice
+ @nonoise

@russ69

If something measures so poorly, wouldn’t you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear?

Good posts. Here’s how I see it.

There are several components involved in judging how something sounds:

1. How it measures
2. Personal perceptual equipment (your ears, your brain)
3. Personal expectations (your taste, sonically and in musical content)
4. Associated equipment
5. Room acoustics

ASR likely looks at this and thinks, the only one of these which can be measured and quantified in our lab is #1, how it measures.

If ASR did measurements and only reported the facts about what they measured, no one would care. Because measurements HAVE to be related to judgments about how things sound, aesthetically, or no one would read the site.

Thus, ASR derives it’s credibility from doing (1) but it drives interest in the site by claiming that (1) correlates with (2) and (3).

This results in two related ironies.

First, ASR’s claim to correlate (1, measurement) with (2, 3 subjective sound) abandons the sites’ main claim to validity.

Second, by reaching beyond measurement, ASR repudiates it’s own purpose as a website.

Here’s a guess on my part. Most gear is made well enough that it should not matter how it measures. Something would have to distort really really badly to correlate with nearly everyone’s personal taste.

Imagine a cup of coffee -- some like it with no sugar, and some like it with up to 4 Tb of sugar. Almost no likes it with more than 4 Tb of sugar. So, if I had a website measuring sugar in coffee, I’d only start to be useful to readers if I told them that this cup of coffee had more than 4 Tb of sugar. But coffee makers already figured *that* out. So, there’d be not much to measure.

What's the solution? Have a variety of subjective reviewers who declare their taste up front. Then, readers can decide if their own tastes are similar enough to a certain reviewer in order to accept their judgments as a helpful guide (not as rule of law). This is how I choose TV or movie reviewers. I find those whose observations and judgments are motivated in ways similar to my own. Then, their additional experience and finer perceptual abilities are helpful in pushing me toward new experiences that I can estimate might be pleasing.

How good feeling it is to read a wise articulated post!

hilde45 thanks  from us all...

When I performed the measurements of the original Rogue Sphinx integrated amplifier to accompany Herb Reichert's review in the August 2014 issue of Stereophile, I was impressed by what I found. "Even without taking into account its affordable price, Rogue Audio's Sphinx offers excellent measured performance with little sign of the usual compromises made in class-D designs,"

@russ69 

That quote you made from Stereophile is from the 2014 review not what ASR reviewed. Stereophile tests appear to show high noise one phono input, high power supply noise, and does not meet 4 ohm power spec. Did ASR note any different?

The main issue I took from Goldensound's review that I posted above is that Amir tests all AES/EBU outputs at 4v.

This this ridiculous because all outputs should be measured at their normal output levels, not attenuated.

Amir is a clown and anyone that gives him the time of day is a bigger clown.

That quote you made from Stereophile is from the 2014 review not what ASR reviewed.

The first quote is the V1 version which supports the second quote for the V3 version. Both experts measured the Spinx V3 and I think got comparable results.

Stereophile tests appear to show high noise one phono input...

Yes, it is highlighted that the MM phono output was noisy. The MC output was not. Probably still has more channel separation and dynamic range than the record you are playing. 

Stereophile tests appear to show ... high power supply noise...

Also mentioned but it's 80 and 90 db down, you are not going to hear it. 

... and does not meet 4 ohm power spec. 

Rogue does not specify a 4ohm power spec. They say 100wpc minimum and don't specify the impedance. Atkinson measured 96watts at 8 ohms and 150watts at 4 ohms. You wont miss the 4db since it would take 200 watts to raise the sound level 3db.  

This is why you need to listen to gear. A few db may be important or they may not depending on what you are measuring. With noise levels down 80 and 90 db, you are not going to hear it. Sure 120 db is better but it's only a better measurement number not something that will ruin playback. That's why Atkinson explains what the numbers mean and their effect on sound quality. ASR skips that step.