I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.

If we reach a point where sound quality can be accurately predicted by measurement I’d have zero resistance or issue with it. My point is acknowledging we are not remotely close to doing that now.

@charles1dad 

I would tend to believe amplifier designers who are building the upper shelf equipment, over the general public.

Measurements tell me next to nothing in regard to how these audio components will sound,  so I must hear them. I totally understand if others judge and select differently with buying audio components.  Do what suits you the best. 

However, the upper shelf designers seem to make stuff that does not require cabels to serve as tone controls. So they seem to know how it will sound by looking at the graphs. Just because 99% cannot, does not mean that it is impossible.

I have a couple of tube amps, and tube preamps… and I know that they colour things.

@holmz

I don’t know who these "upper shelf designers" of amplifiers are that you’re referencing. Okay, you find your tube audio electronics "colored" (As though transistor audio electronics don’t have their own colorations, albeit different). If these are your conclusions based on your experiences, Then I accept them as "yours".

I’m in no position to challenge or refute what you’ve experienced. I can just simply say that you and I have had different experiences and as a result, different outcomes that shape and form our respective opinions. I hope that you are able to obtain an amplifier made by one of the upper shelf designers that you cite above.

I meant what I have written earlier, follow the pathway that suits you the best. My chosen pathway is to hear and do actual listening of audio products myself. If you are reassured by test measurements then continue with that method. For me it’s woefully inadequate.

Charles

However, the upper shelf designers seem to make stuff that does not require cabels

Show me just one audio electronic manufacturer that doesn't use aftermarket cables to demo their gear.

@holmz

I don’t know who these "upper shelf designers" of amplifiers are that you’re referencing

Well @atmasphere himself opined in the thread, and you quoted him.
There is also the Purifi gear that a lot of manufacturers are using, and a few others that are pretty stunning (Benchmark, Pass, etc.).

I’m in no position to challenge or refute what you’ve experienced. I can just simply say that you and I have had different experiences and as a result, different outcomes that shape and form our respective opinions. I hope that you are able to obtain an amplifier made by one of the upper shelf designers that you cite above.

I am in not position to refute what Ralph said, not Bruno, nor Nelson.

I meant what I have written earlier, follow the pathway that suits you the best. My chosen pathway is to hear and do actual listening of audio products myself. If you are reassured by test measurements then continue with that method. For me it’s woefully inadequate.

Have you heard any of the Purifi based Class-D? The Benchmark, or Atmasphere amps?

I am seriously thinking about selling the VTLs, and the PrimaLuna. But I’ll slide a class-D in first to make sure.

Show me just one audio electronic manufacturer that doesn't use aftermarket cables to demo their gear.

Ok - let’s take the Benchmark ABH2.

On the back we find a pair of Neutrik SpeakOn connectors, like we find on many other pro audio pieces… amps and speakers.

Many other amps also use those and they are common item for hooking up amps and speakers.