Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

I just bought the Topping D90SE (ASR's darling DAC) as a baseline means of a/b comparisons between my Musetec, Lumin P1, and Terminator II, will be doing this experiment for some time probably before I will have something meaningful to say, will come back here to post impressions, most likely will avoid doing so on ASR. Last time I did that regarding my impressions of my new B&W 804 D4s in response to the Stereophile review was a rather unpleasant experience.

@kairosman That will be good comparison!

At ASR one is deemed incompetent engineer if measurements aren't to their criteria, assume engineer can't design or execute proper measuring component. Two, if listener enjoys this incompetent component they are deemed incompetent listener. Funny, but I posted over at ASR my enjoyment of both 005 and Okto Dac (good test results at ASR), still I was deemed incompetent listener. Once your painted with incompetent brush there can be no redemption, only those whose listening impressions line up exactly with measurement protocol deemed golden ears. Point being, don't deviate from whats expected, talk about forced compliance and bias!

But you know, the funniest thing about ASR is, while they deem some as incompetent listeners, they admit their own incompetency in stating and believing first, inherent human senses are unreliable, second, individual sensory perception is completely invalidated. So, don't trust your senses, and/or your individual perceptions of what those senses tell you. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what this means, how does one even listen without relying on one's own senses?

@car123 You probably missed it in this long thread, but I previously owned the SU6, I had the whole setup ready to go. I never felt motivated to even give it a single listen based on my great results with my particular usb setup. As a result I  recently sold it without ever having listened to it.

So, back to ASR, measurements and 005 particulars. In spite of pedantic nature of ASR and sycophants I do lend some credibility to measurements and their correlation to some aspects of sound quality. As HermannS over on headfi forum 005 thread mentioned, the discreet I/U and output stage may be responsible for the  saturation in output stage ASR measured. Add in the ESS chip "hump" and its quite possible some artifacts in sound could be exposed by these measurements. I alluded to this in prior post when I mentioned any +$10K dac I'd consider for purchase would be expected to have greater refinement than 005. While the 005 has been a very nice dac over the two years plus of my ownership and constant upgrades, I'm now coming to the end of those upgrades, subsequent burn in and long term analysis. I do hear what is a likely artifact of some of these distortion figures. My focus is beginning to be drawn to a certain stridency in massed violins, not to the point of glare, in fact much less of this than from previous dacs, and certainly recording dependent. but still it is there. Keep in mind, I'm judging this in relation to live non-amplified instruments, and various vinyl setups I've owned over the years, and finally to my aural memory of multi $100k vinyl setups. So, a pretty high standard for natural timbre.

I've not been to audio shows in recent years, so I've not heard the latest and greatest digital, but based on members here and others all over the interwebs who own top flight vinyl AND digital setups, it is stated the best digital can now compete with or exceed vinyl in every parameter. The 005 not here, nor should we expect that at $3k. So, my bottom line is I'll give the measurement crowd some due, I believe what I'm hearing correlates to some of these distortion figures. Doesn't mean I've changed my overall perspective of the dac one iota. This could be an end game dac for many, all depends on how high a mountain one wants to climb. In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy this dac without reservation, even knowing I have higher mountains to climb. This will be one of those pieces I remember fondly when it comes time to sell.

I received this more extended letter from Jinbo Li this morning. He is the designer and manufacturer of the Musetec. I will comment in a follow-up post.

I wrote some words. I think it’s necessary to tell you my opinion.

The development of DA005 has undergone a lot of testing and listening. We focus more on listening tests. In my first few years in the field of audio product development, I also focused on instrument testing to study various data results of products through testing. However, it is finally found that we cannot express the actual listening feeling of audio equipment through the limited test method of audio analyzer. For example, in the process of development, it is very easy to see an interesting phenomenon that capacitors, resistors, wires and even solder of different brands or series will directly change the sound, but when these parts are changed, we can’t check the change of test data through the analyzer. Once I made two DACs and did a blind listening test with my friends to verify some conclusions. I used exactly the same circuit board, resistor, capacitor, IC, etc. in short, the two DACs are exactly the same except for the different solder. As a result, the two DACs showed completely different sound styles when replaying music, and even there was a gap in sound quality, such as their dynamic expression of sound, transparency and so on. The two DACs are made of exactly the same materials, so we can’t distinguish them by audio analyzer.

I know there is an argument that wire and fuse are metaphysics, and "burn-in" is also metaphysics.

Before I know enough about it, I also agree that these are metaphysics. But it is likely that there are some "data" that we cannot detect through the existing analyzer.

I have seriously thought about why the "burn-in" will bring obvious sound changes. Even the newly welded equipment after standing for a few days without electricity will have a more natural listening feeling than the newly welded equipment. The basic components of audio equipment - resistor, capacitor, inductor, solder, IC, etc. are composed of basic metal atoms and compound molecules. When the machine is powered on, these parts can be activated, electrons and ions migrate continuously, and even the materials inside the component vibrate due to the change of current frequency. This process will produce some changes inside the component. But it may not be a favorable change, so we need to try different components repeatedly. The goal is to find those components that are just right for the change after full activation. For example, it usually takes at least 5-7 days to determine whether a type of capacitor is suitable. If there is not enough time, the sound will be different every day.

Because of the existence of the above situation, it will directly lead to a problem, that is, the time and energy spent by listening and adjustment is far greater than the instrument test. For this reason, we usually need at least three years to update a product. Carefully update products, that is why we have many loyal customers.

I usually think that if there is a analyzer which can effectively detect these changes, the process of developing products will be much easier and faster.

I respect ASR’s test. They have excellent test equipment, even have some authority. but I don’t think this test conclusion has a direct relationship with the sound performance of the product. However, I will seek a high-performance testing instrument to review the ASR test. If my customers are dissatisfied with the instrument test performance of the product, we will update the design to the customers who need it in the next few months to make the updated product have good enough instrument test performance. We will extend the warranty period of the product in case of any delay.

Being experienced modifier of various components over the years,  I 100% concur with everything Jimbo stated! Thank you, Melm!

His statement in regard to modifying 005 to measure better very interesting. Will this affect sound quality is positive or negative manner?

@melm, thanks for obtaining & sharing that. A thoughtful and constructive response, imo.

@sns, agree, was wondering the same thing, that’s the big question :-). It will be great to see / hear what measurement results and what changes if any Jinbo comes up with - and _especially_, how they sound of course.

I’d also be quite interested to know whether most of the units produced do meet the published specs or not. In my view, wanting or hoping for better measured performance would be one thing, but units meeting published specifications is a bit different.