Soundstage and image height, does it exist?


On another site, there is a discussion on soundstage, and there are a few people clamming, that, since there is no vertical information encoded on stereo recordings, that soundstage height does not actually exist. It is a product of our minds filling in missing information. 

Are they correct?

Please explain your position, with as much technical details as you feel needed.

 

128x128simonmoon

Without reading any of the posts, I've decided this post is nonsense. Obviously if you have ears and decent equipment this post is moot. I'm  fairly new to autophila Started with 1 adcom and added another, bi-wired in stereo. They had a nice soundfield. 5 foot oval in the middle.  Oh the speakers Cornwall iv's preamp Mc M70 sound was very good Loved it. Came across a mcintosh 452. the owner wanted to upgrade to the mc462. {THANK YOU} pulled the adcoms and added the mac. an amazing difference, The soundstage expanded 3 foil, to the whole back of my sound space.The room is 15 by 20 with a couch 15 feet back. there is no way I'm mistaken the difference is obvious, there's no denying it. The perfect listening spot is about 10 feet back but she wont let me move the couch.

On this @nonoise and I agree. It took me a long time to get the speakers set up properly and longer still to get the subs right but now that I am at least much closer to perfect I most definitely perceive height differences.

People "clamming" are generally not aware of soundstaging so much as the splort and sucking sound the mudflats make as one clams. Otherwise, soundstage height, width, location of instruments either accurate of not (drummer's kits are generally not 25 feet wide, although some engineers think they should be), is a fundamental part of great hifi without which the whole damn thing would be senseless (pun intended).

I always took it for granted until I had some very much non-audiophiles over in my much too small for the big speakers I had, studio apartment. There is a track that starts with a skateboarder in a half-pipe. The friend who happened to be sitting in the sweet spot basically stopped all conversations and made everyone take turns listening to the opening of the track from the sweet spot. You can very much tell that there is height. The half pipe extends through the floor. Maybe it was expectation, and they were each familiar with the sound and could immediately contextualize it, but I doubt it.

I don’t know if showing height is a goal during mixdowns. I do know there was an project I read of years ago that was able to make a sound appear to be generated from anywhere in a room with a single speaker. I don’t know how much calibration was needed to adjust for room acoustics, but it certainly worked as a proof of concept. 

Thanks for all the responses to my OP, folks!

I have never had a problem getting height in my images, when the material calls for it. 

 

Like in the track on Chesky's first "Ultimate Evaluation Disk", with the Mozart flute concerto, where, on all my previous systems, and my current one, the flute is always at the correct height for a person standing and playing the flute.

Like wise, on the title track of King Crimson's "Islands", there is a cornet that comes in at about 2:00 in, that is also at about 5.5 feet above the floor, just at the correct height.

I ordered Chesky's CD with the LEDR test on it, even though I know you can get it for free. I also want the rest of the material on the disk.