Soundstage and image height, does it exist?


On another site, there is a discussion on soundstage, and there are a few people clamming, that, since there is no vertical information encoded on stereo recordings, that soundstage height does not actually exist. It is a product of our minds filling in missing information. 

Are they correct?

Please explain your position, with as much technical details as you feel needed.

 

128x128simonmoon

People "clamming" are generally not aware of soundstaging so much as the splort and sucking sound the mudflats make as one clams. Otherwise, soundstage height, width, location of instruments either accurate of not (drummer's kits are generally not 25 feet wide, although some engineers think they should be), is a fundamental part of great hifi without which the whole damn thing would be senseless (pun intended).

I always took it for granted until I had some very much non-audiophiles over in my much too small for the big speakers I had, studio apartment. There is a track that starts with a skateboarder in a half-pipe. The friend who happened to be sitting in the sweet spot basically stopped all conversations and made everyone take turns listening to the opening of the track from the sweet spot. You can very much tell that there is height. The half pipe extends through the floor. Maybe it was expectation, and they were each familiar with the sound and could immediately contextualize it, but I doubt it.

I don’t know if showing height is a goal during mixdowns. I do know there was an project I read of years ago that was able to make a sound appear to be generated from anywhere in a room with a single speaker. I don’t know how much calibration was needed to adjust for room acoustics, but it certainly worked as a proof of concept. 

Thanks for all the responses to my OP, folks!

I have never had a problem getting height in my images, when the material calls for it. 

 

Like in the track on Chesky's first "Ultimate Evaluation Disk", with the Mozart flute concerto, where, on all my previous systems, and my current one, the flute is always at the correct height for a person standing and playing the flute.

Like wise, on the title track of King Crimson's "Islands", there is a cornet that comes in at about 2:00 in, that is also at about 5.5 feet above the floor, just at the correct height.

I ordered Chesky's CD with the LEDR test on it, even though I know you can get it for free. I also want the rest of the material on the disk.

 

If height information is encoded in a recording I’ve found it doesn’t take much of a system at all for it to be perceived. Pretty much any basic system will make it work. Height perception should even work in mono. I’ve found it also easy to get sounds extending well beyond the speakers to even behind the listener. Speaker placement and listening position are a little more important for the wrap around effect but it doesn’t require a great system. I find forward depth is far more difficult for me to perceive, pretty much impossible if I can see the front wall too close to me, although it can work if I close my eyes and the system is well balanced tonally and speakers positioned well.

It exists but recording as well as room and equipment dependent. My reason for saying this, I can hear it in my room at times. Certainly the depth, left, right and center aspects of sound stage are much more frequently present. When I say height its not that the wall of sound is high as well as wide it is I can hear specific sounds as coming from a tall specific spot within the sound stage.