Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@lordmelton Totally agree on preamp front, I'd still use separate pre if I owned Briscati. Analog volume function on B would only be of value if one was lacking good quality pre.

@lordmelton @charles1dad I generally stay away from the word organic in describing sound quality, but understand it's meaning when others use it. I generally use natural or use 'performers in room' to convey this attribute. As for the 005 specifically, I find @lordmelton  description to be entirely correct in that it does have extreme level of resolution, transparency that exposes all of a recording. For me it fits the definition of 'performers in room', which also fits my definition of natural or organic. Now, if organic is to fit Charles defintion it may not conform to that level of naturalness. That level of natural may require a bit more warmth than 005 has to give, both @jjss49  and myself, and it seems @lordmelton  all agree the  005 pretty dead neutral, JJSS having heard a bit more of this nature with Briscati, my present conclusions, and L admittance in prior post. Yes, the 005 moves me emotionally and has this organic nature, just may not fully flush it out vs. some other dacs. No dac can be perfect, which means playing off set of compromises, 005 set of compromises is nearly perfect for me, may not for another. I fully expect someday I'll be replacing 005 with another dac, don't know when, but I'm quite certain dacs will continue to evolve towards both higher resolution and more natural timbre/organic/natural sound.

@melm  You are correct, we cannot know the quality of the built in streamer in B, but overall sound vs 005 can be determined. The issue for fair comparison is quality of the streamer used with 005, with so many variations available hard to compare fairly to any dac with built in streamer. We must take at face value the PARTICULAR comparisons available to us and make subjective evaluation. And this is where I'd balance the comparison in 005's favor. With non streaming dac we can pick and choose from myriad streaming choices, we have greater ability to flavor our sound in various ways. With presumed streaming innovations ahead of us we have opportunity for even greater performance in future. No doubt greater versatility with 005  vs Briscati, or any discrete streamer dac vs steaming dac.

@charles1dad

Well, describing sound in words has always been difficult. Wise writers have given us some guidance from time to time. "Organic" and "musical" are too often used by audiophiles simply to mean, "it has a sound that I like." I have used "musical" at times, including in this thread, but I have given it a specific definition drawn from an old writing in UHF Magazine. I suspect that "organic" when it is not used simply to mean "I like it" may actually denote "yin" as popularized by the writings of Harry Pearson. But yin was regarded by HP as a coloration and not an asset. So too IMO expressions like it sounds more analogue, or more like tubes.

We are left then with: it makes the music sound more like unamplified instruments in real space, or not. For the most part this limits the music to classical, most often performed without the benefit of microphones and loudspeakers. I was intrigued by your post suggesting jazz shows like that. Did I get that right? If so, kudos to them and to you.

Around here that writing has been done best IMO by @dbb which is why his thread deserves a bump from time to time.

One important aspect of having separates for streaming, volume, etc.. is that you can buy these units in the used market. For example, one of my 3 Sonore OpticalRendu’s is used and was a significant cost savings.

I also never liked the volume on a DAC, especially at low volume. My Benchmark LA4 preamp at $2500 (new) serves me perfectly for source input switching and volume.

I am under $7K for my Musetec 005 system (volume, streaming, DAC). There is no other streaming component I would want nor preamp, at ANY price, I want to switch too.

I first heard the word organic when Meridian launched their 500 series IIRC at the Earl's Court, London HIFI show in the late '80s. It was a truly beautiful if not cloured sound they produced. The first real assault on vinyl if you like. I was so enamoured I bought a CD player, can't remember which one. 506 maybe?

Anyways since then I have associated organic with a coloured and unrealistic sound. The sound of tubes or old radios or receivers, if you like. These sounds may be very pleasing and even romantic but they are not accurate, that's why I prefer solid state. However you listen to what you prefer whether it's a syrupy Chet Baker or electronic music.

But please understand music can never sound organic, it's a word that you have been accustomed and conditioned to, but it really doesn't exist.

Maybe consider harmonious, everything playing in harmony, although if harmony exists the opposite must exist too which is found in the anti harmonic compositions of Zappa, Floyd and many classical composers.

What I'm trying to say is that "organic" cannot reproduce anti harmonic compositions, that's why we should strive for neutrality and accuracy.

The 005 is not perfect but for $3k it comes pretty darn close.

“But please understand music can never sound organic, it’s a word that you have been accustomed and conditioned to, but it really doesn’t exist”

Completely disagree , however just as I suspected it’s a semantic or lexicon problem. My use of the term Organic is quite different from your interpretation, and that’s fine. To be absolutely clear, organic is synonymous with natural in my vocabulary. So by default it obviously exists.

organic for me does not imply some form of added warmth or coloration, to others who use this term it surely does imply this. As I mention in my earlier post, Organic is the highest of complements toward an electronic audio product. It represents natural purity, and “breath of life “ realism. The polar opposite of artificial, fake,electronic and mechanical. This lofty goal is difficult to achieve.

So again it is obvious (And understood) organic means different things to different people. I just wanted to clarify my use and interpretation of the term.

Charles