Speaker positioning and center image depth
I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.
I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.
Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.
Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.
That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.
I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.
Addition to the Cardas diagram. Just plug in dimensions. I find something between this and room 1/3rd's works in my room. Both are going to have the speaker dominate the real estate. For dedicated rooms only. I have a pair of ML panels 8' out in a 13x26' long room. Along with, a pair of subs, this produces a satisfying, reasonably convincing presentation. The ML's get slid WAY back towards the wall when not playing. http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php
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@twoleftears I love the humor, but I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or if you actually wish that the soundstage was more forward. If so, try toeing in slightly memore or bringing your speakers closer together. |
@juanmanuelfangioii and @tablejockey I would say the Cardas and 1/3rd rules are very good places to start, but I also argue that the height and slope of a ceiling will greatly influence positioning. Taller ceilings (>11ft) and sloped ceilings both complicate matters as the volume of the room increases and as such some speakers need to be nearer to the wall to take advantage of the possible room gain. When people walk into my room, which is 19x23 with a sloped ceiling (9’ in front for me, 18’ behind me), they tend to say “This is the best type of room, it emulates a horn”. Yes, reflections are minimized in this kind of design, but so is the ability for a speaker to charge the room. Oh, the fun adventures of positioning! |
This video was helpful to me. When I did my tests, I put down lots of tape and moved speakers from the front wall incrementally, same with side to side. Listening positioning, too. I won’t lie -- it’s extraordinarily laborious, but the upside is that as you take notes during the process and start to rank best positions, you begin to see that there are multiple good positions and that there is a plurality of benefits. In some positions, it’s bass tightness, in others, evenness of tone, in others soundstage, etc. Getting the bass right is priority #1 for me because other things can be dealt with more easily. |
