What is your take on high efficient speakers vs. low efficient speakers?


Consider both designs are done right and your other equipment is well matched with the speakers.  Do you have any preference when it comes to sound quality?  Is it matter of economic decision when it comes to price? - power amps can become very expensive when power goes up, on the other hand large,  efficient speakers are expensive as well.  Is your decision based on room size?  I'd love to hear from you on the subject. 

128x128tannoy56

@mijostyn wrote:

horns are a very alluring proposition. They are efficient and there is no question they can play louder than any other type of system with low levels of distortion. You can also control the radiation pattern to limit room interaction, another big plus.

Indeed. More though than the ability to play loud with low levels of distortion is their sound at more average SPL’s with even lower distortion and the sense of aliveness in music intact (which may otherwise require higher SPL’s), the ease of reproduction this offers and the prodigious dynamic headroom that allows uninhibited transient peaks and full dynamic swings. The ability to play loud well isn’t really about stretching this envelope to the max., not to me at least, but (to stay in the car analogy) to feel that the engine has power in reserve for any occasion readily at your disposal (i.e.: sense of effortlessness), as well as - and not least - a sensation of inherent power lurking beneath. The sense of power in sound reproduction (all tied into the above) is vastly underrated, if you ask me.

Unfortunately they fall short for a number of reasons. There is no such thing as a full range horn. You are forced into having a crossover somewhere in the midrange or upper bass. Many horn systems run a dynamic woofer well into the midrange, so much for low distortion. It would be a complicated mess trying to make a line source horn system.

True, the wretched cross-over(s) and where to place them. ESL’s no doubt have a big advantage here. Trying to emulate a line source is not necessarily the goal though; within the limitations given here my effort has been to reduce the number of cross-over points down to a single one in the main speakers, and focus on maintaining dispersion characteristics at this chosen point from the dual woofers up through the horn. Being that the sound emanates from this +6 ft. radiation surface is not wholly unlike that of a large panel speaker - in its overall presentation at least. With steep filters (6th order) via a DSP and a HP on the woofers at 83Hz and a LP at just over 600Hz, distortion subjectively is very low. They move zilch even at bonkers SPL’s.

Line Source systems are the only way to get into the first 10 rows. ESLs can cover 100 to 18 kHz no problem, no crossover. They maintain the lowest distortion levels throughout that range. Crossing to a sub at 100 Hz is much less of a problem especially if done with steep digital filters.

Absolutely - ESL’s are widebanders in ways dynamic loudspeakers can’t equal. You can however effectively emulate a single source merging several drivers in a single horn as Danley’s Synergy Horns, and as far as distortion levels go - depending on where we look for them - they can be vanishing low via horn speakers as well. I have an 111dB sensitivity horn/comp. driver combo looking directly into a class-A amp with no passive filter components in between, using only factions of a watt with normal playback. That’s way low distortion levels.

The only disadvantage ESLs have relative to horns is that they are much less efficient. The fact that they won’t play as loud is not a problem because they will do 105 dB and anything louder than 100 dB is certainly damaging your hearing.

The occasional peak levels of +100dB’s found in live acoustic performances or non-compressed recording playback isn’t a problem, it’s blasting away at continuous loud levels with compressed material that will take its toll on the ears. Oh and of course instantaneous mega loud blasts like explosions or other can also be severely damaging on ones hearing.

And to reiterate: to do 105dB's peak cleanly at the listening position you need way more SPL capability than that - at least if you want to know what effortless playback really is. 

I am a huge proponent of actively driving loudspeakers. This does not mean that all the wizardry has to be within the loudspeaker. You can actively drive any loudspeaker with outboard components. I have been doing it for 20 or so years.

Fully agree, it’s what I do myself with outboard components (though not for 20 years - kudos).

There is no other way to get the absolute most out of any system and this is not IMHO. I have seen, heard and measured enough to know this is a fact. If there are any downsides to this they are far outweighed by the benefits. Trying to maintain a totally analog system is like owning a vintage Corvette. If you are a track junkie you will go a lot faster in a C8. I’m not into owning antiques. I like driving fast.

Won’t argue with that either, but I certainly respect and acknowledge that very good sound can be had in passively filtrated speakers.

@mijostyn wrote:

SET amplifiers are about as silly as cable elevators.

Don’t agree with this however - that is, regarding the SET's.

@phusis we have to disagree about something. Try driving an ESL with a SET amp. Do I smell something burning?

You can get good sound with passive systems and I have heard one passive system that got very close to the absolute sound but, you can take any passive system and make it better within the limits of the equipment and room. 

@larryi , you can get reasonable sound out of a SET amp with efficient speakers but you will never get to the absolute sound. It is a path with a dead end. 

What is the Absolute Sound? Go to Boston Symphony hall and sit 10th row dead center. Got to a small Jazz club and sit up front. Close your eyes and listen to each instrument. That is the Absolute Sound. This can be done in a home environment and there are several paths to this result but there are certain approaches that simply will not get you there. They may have a pleasing result but not a chance at Absolute Sound. 

If you can close your eyes and feel like you are at a small jazz club you are on the right path. Cable elevators excluded

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If you can close your eyes and feel like you are at a small jazz club you are on the right path. Cable elevators excluded

This is precisely what led me to SET. Very frequent attendance at local jazz venues for the past 30 or so years.We all find our own paths. I respect everyone’s road to Rome.

Best wishes 

Charles

I am a fan of the low power / high efficiency pairing.    I also feel that most higher efficiency speakers sound like live music and can be more dynamic.  I think they often sound better at lower volumes.  Just went from a pair of 40 watt Push Pull amps to a 300b and it's plenty of power for my space and listening habits.