Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

If their claims matched reality, I’d say "cool, they know how to measure important things". Apparently they don’t know how. A bad review from ASR is a badge of honor.

 

All I can say from personal experience: I have as my preamp a hand-made copy of The Truth by Ed Shilling. It is built like something out of a high school science project, but it sounds absolutely amazing and I just love it: you cannot hear it, as it adds or subtracts absolutely nothing, because the signal path is completely decoupled from the gain stage (by means of a LED/light-sensor circuit);  but what it does is creating amazing dynamics. Needless to say, ASR trashed it so badly that I feel really sorry for Ed. But Ed is just shrugging it off, good man.

Everything in my system with the exception of my RME adi2 DAC would fail ASR's strict measurement criteria , yet together as a system they sound great .  Explain that please .   

The RME was the darling of ASR for a while and it's not a bad DAC at all.    Compare it to the LAB 12 DAC 1 Reference that replaced it and there's no contest .   The LAB 12 sounds much more lifelike despite it's specs on paper.   Which are 

  • Frequency response: 20Hz to 20 KHz + 0dB/-1dB.
  • THD: lower than 0.15%

Those are the only published specs.   And they aren't that great but it sounds really good so who cares?

The RME impresses with it's "perfect" sound but when you compare it to the LAB 12 you soon realize something is missing , weight , tone , dimension, instrument's position or location in space.

Some may prefer that pristine almost clinical sound of something like the RME or the bigger , meatier sound of something like the LAB 12.  That's the great thing about all this stuff.   It's like ice cream , there is a flavor for everyone 

This quote is attributed to John Curl " Measurements are best used to

confirm what is heard by the ear".

 

Dr. I concur. 

You just cannot win an argument with ASR. They always have the final word. They always claim to be objective. They always take a position of authority citing scientific papers written decades ago. ASR read Floyd Toole papers like the Bible. ASR worships Amir like Jesus. The striking ressemblance to religious fanatics is uncanny. 

Perhaps the issue with ASR isn't the obsession over measurements, but rather the internet mob mentality. With internet mob mentality there's only ONE way to get things done and a thousand "inferior" ways to accomplish the same thing. You're treated like a fool if you stray away from the "optimal" path. Creativity, innovation and curiosity are thrown in the trash to make room for strict guidelines which can never be challenged under any circumstances. 

I noticed this mob mentality with the Magic the Gathering community (a trading card game where you build your own deck of cards and challenge other players, the possibilities are infinite). Professional players would publish decklists and strategies on their website (usually Channel Fireball or TCG Player). Competitive players would blindly copy these decklists without any thought, card-for-card. This is how the "metagame" was formed. The metagame is basically a ranking of decks, you would typically have 3 powerful decks and dozens of "inferior" off-meta decks. So every weekly tournament felt like a complex game of "rock-paper-scissors". 

This metagame mentality applies to everything in life: mattresses, cars, speakers, tooth brushes, toilets, music, books, chairs etc...

It's up to you to carve your own path, or follow strict rankings and guidelines. Don't let other people's strong opinions get to you.