What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?


Thinking about the possibility of searching for a new tonearm. The table is a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse. Cartridge currently in use is a Transfiguration Audio Proteus, and it also looks like I will also have an Ortofon Verismo if a diamond replacement occurs without incident. 

The V is an early generation one but in good condition with no issues. Some folks never thought highly of the arm, others thought it quite capable. So it's a bit decisive. 

The replacement has to be 9 to 10.5 inches. I have wondered if Origin Live is worth exploring? Perhaps a generation old Triplanar from the pre owned market?

 Any thoughts on what are viable choices? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

neonknight

@peterayer Your parameters to select a Tonearm has been as good as one could want to be achieved. The discovery made by yourself about there being 'when discovered' something that is repellent about the Flagship SME Tonearms is in keeping with my own findings.

Your description is "over 'damped and coloured sounding".

It does not need such control parameters to be in place as you have used, for an individual to discover a experience that is extremely attractive to them.

A one off experience and a attraction made is a subjective evaluation, or a extended period of A/B comparison between devices, in a controlled parameter, is still a subjective evaluation.

If a device is used, and it hits a home run, that is perfectly suited to ones unique taste and preference, that is enough, the choice made is after all, made by the one who is to experience the choice made, as part of their intended wish to have musical encounters.

When I was learning about how a New Tonearm to myself could compare to my SME IV. I come to the description the IV was seemingly constrained and controlled. There was a overbearing perception that a freedom of interaction was missing and when aware of this, it was unattractive and become a repellent, quite a outcome for someone who had been Wed to the IV as a 'go to' Arm for many years.  

The Tonearm I have now in use has the capability to create the impression it is completely free from constraint, the perception is it has a tangible freedom, and is interacting as a 'tool to do a job' in a manner that is very attractive, ( the chisel certainly is not blunted ).

In your own evaluations you used a Tonearm Pod and it is possible this Pod or another version of one is still in use.

I have no concerns for the use of a Tonearm Pod, from my observation from a time when a Two Arm Table was an attraction, and I was looking at options to create the set up.

I viewed the Standalone Pod, as not too much different from a Side Bar Cantilever Arm attachment as seen on a variety of TT Brands looking to offer a Multi-arm mounting configuration. The Cantilever can present it own mechanical deficiencies, but not enough to make a replay unattractive, the Pod has the same condition.

There is a Standalone Pod Designs I have seen in use that have a Mass Structure and a Densified Wood Arm Board as a Interface for the Tonearm. When sharing a Support Base with a TT, where the base has very stable inherent properties, the methodology for this set up, is unquestionably fit for purpose and will adequately mount an Arm, not only as a trialing mount for an A/B but also as a permanent role as a Arm Support.

A friend with a SP10 R was investigating a New Tone Arm, to enable the variety of arms to be used for the demonstrations the SP10 R owner has has a Standalone Tonearm Pod produced. From recollection the Arms used were a Glanz MH-12000s and MH-900s and a Reed 3P (9" Model). These three arms were home demo's on a few separate occasions through a Local HiFi distributor.

My SME IV was loaned for a extended demo' period, as well as a Loaned OL Arm and there was a Linn Arm already owned. 

Each of the Three above loaned /owned arms were able to be fully understood for for their impact on the performance, when used with the SP10 R and a established impression was able to be formed about each. Neither of these found their place on a Shortlist as a Model to be considered.

The Arm Purchased after the experiences encountered was the Glanz MH-1200s, which has made such a positive impression on a Standalone Monopod that is where it remains mounted.   

Even though there is a difference in how the 3012 R and Glanz arms were chosen the control criteria in place to help make the decision is with similarities, and a arm was discovered that has made a very positive impression and wanted to be lived with.

I am able to enjoy the SP10R > Glanz (Standalone Pod Mounted)> Miyajima on regular occasion and have never felt at any time something is amiss, 'recording dependent' the musical experience encountered is jaw dropping good and always wanted to be revisited.

I am hoping your jaw has a drop now and again as a result of the good musical experiences being encountered, and whilst standing in a queue somewhere the desire surfaces to get back for a listen, with a Tipple in moderation of ones favourite at arms length.

 

 

@rauliruegas Thanks for the welcome.  I've been distracted from audio by other projects for the past few years, and now have more time to participate.  The better of my two 3012R arms was worked over by

 

Dear @dgarretson @peterayer : Thank’s for the link.

Now, even that’s not exactly the same the today SME M2-12R is theSME 3012R response where mainly they fixed the main " trouble " in the vintage tonearm because in the M2 there is no knife bearing any more along that SME improved the internal damping and internal wire.

 

Other than the good look 12" tonearms really can’t gives us a true advantages even its lower tracking error. This example speaks by it self.

Löfgren A IEC standard. Tracking distortion in between/around null points for a 12" against what for me could be the best EL compromise 10.5" and against 9" too:

 

12 "....... 0.420%

10.5"... 0.485%

9"........ 0.58%

 

Who in this thread can detect: 0.065% or 0.16% against the 9" difference?

I know I can’t do it. We have to take in count too that at each single mm. the tracking distortion is changing all over the LP recorded grooves:

 

same premises but 1mm. after:

12"....0.419% vs 0.420% 1mm. before, difference of 0.001% tracking distortion that even a bat can’t be aware of it.

Those measurements are when the cartridge/tonearm alignment has 100% of accuraccy ! !

 

So where is the 12" big deal? along that this is what the SAT designer says about in favor of shorter arms vs 12"+ ones:

 

 

Makes sense the 12" EL tonearm design other that its look?, certainly not for me.

 

and we have to think in the higher inertia moment in the 12" and its effect in the cartridge stylus tip/cantilever by that added dynamic mass that needs to handle along all the LP imperfections.

 

 

THAT GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND YOUR DEAREST FAMILY IN THIS NEW    

2 0 2 3   YEAR   !  !  !

 

Sincerely,

 

R.

 

 

 

There are measurements and there is listening.  People choose what sounds right to them.  

@peterayer , You choose what sounds right based on, design considerations and measurements especially when it comes to tonearms.

@neonknight , I also have a Cosmos. The TriPlanar is a great arm but it will not fit on a Cosmos. That dropped rear end runs into the plinth. The SME 5 is a great arm. Origin Live arms will fit but I prefer the 4Point 9 and the Schroder CB. I have a Schroder CB and the only bad thing I can say about it is it does not come with a tonearm rest. Mr Schroder thinks they resonate and will not put one directly on the arm. I made a locking one and mounted it on the Sota's plinth. You can see it on my system page. I have both walnut and cherry in stock if you would like one. Otherwise the CB is as good as a pivoted tonearm gets. It is neutral balance, is adjustable for different cartridge compliances and has a wonderful frictionless, magnetic anti skate mechanism. It's geometry is also right on the money and it lines up Lofgren B perfectly. The 4 Point nine is less expensive. The wire leads out over the plinth instead of under and usually has at least one additional connection. The Schroder is one wire clips to RCAs or XLRs. Otherwise the Kuzma is an excellent arm.