room size question.

@bshaw my room is 12 X 18 but my speakers are along the long wall (yes, sacrilege), so i have a similar depth issue as you. My speakers are WAY out from the back wall nevertheless. (Over 4 feet). This is the result of lots and lots of experimentation. I've probably tried 75 different speaker/listening position combinations.

Don't be afraid to pull them way out. In fact, try this: start with them all the way out to almost your listening position, and then start moving them toward the back wall, 8 inches or so at a time. Keep them pointed forward (no toe in) the whole time. At some point, the soundstage will snap into place. Once you know they can produce a soundstage, then you can fiddle with toe-in. I do not subscribe to the view that toe-in should be used to generate a soundstage where your speakers otherwise cannot create one.

You may decide you want them closer to the back wall than the above ends up putting them, but you will know your outer limit this way. I did this after my speakers were already dialed in, as an experiment, and I ended up putting them back where I had originally put them, but the above process resulted in a placement within 3-4 inches of what I am convinced is their best spot. The soundstage is huge, wide, and tall.

@bshaw :

GIK bass corner traps in corners behind speakers, 2 diffusors on stands at first reflection point and 2 acoustical panels behind listening chair .

Try diffusers behind your listening chair (back wall), and the absorbers at first reflection points. Basically reverse what you have now.

I think you said "no toe-in", which is typically what is suggested when you want bigger soundstage (vs. focus), so you should be good there.

" start with them all the way out to almost your listening position, and then start moving them toward the back wall, 8 inches or so at a time"

exactly what New Record Day showed

@bshaw  I have not achieved a great soundstage without some toe-in. Try crossing just in front or just behind your ears. I'd also like to know if your tweeters are at ear level. Finally I would space out a little wider if you can. I like that you have a low rack, that helps. I'm not sure you listed your gear but if you are using, for example, a low level receiver, you can't get much out of something like that. You are on the right path, keep working. 

@jmh128

I am confused. You say "it images just fine...but again, no soundstage. Well, imaging IS soundstage. I think you have to define what you mean by imaging and what you mean by soundstage.

when i had a previous system at our other house, it was in a more open area, cathedral ceilings and that system had the center imaging, separation of instruments and many times it played well beyond the speakers. when listening to the music, and you hear this a lot....you get the sense of being there.  this is the part that i am missing. yes, i have the vocals in the center and maybe a cymbal will sound like its coming from further back, but that is it. i

@grislybutter

i will try to move the speakers out more and see what happens....but kinda limited as the speaker cables are only 8 ft.

@thyname

Try diffusers behind your listening chair (back wall), and the absorbers at first reflection points. Basically reverse what you have now.

I think you said "no toe-in", which is typically what is suggested when you want bigger soundstage (vs. focus), so you should be good there.

acoustical panels i can move, but these diffusors you cant hang on the wall.....so for that to happen , would have to order ones that can be.

i get that toe in is suggested, but it doesnt sound good that way and i did just a tiny bit yesterday ....and its possible that these speakers dont require toe in . when i had the system at the other house, those speakers ( magnepan 2.6qrs ) had no toe in and they sounded great.