What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?


Thinking about the possibility of searching for a new tonearm. The table is a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse. Cartridge currently in use is a Transfiguration Audio Proteus, and it also looks like I will also have an Ortofon Verismo if a diamond replacement occurs without incident. 

The V is an early generation one but in good condition with no issues. Some folks never thought highly of the arm, others thought it quite capable. So it's a bit decisive. 

The replacement has to be 9 to 10.5 inches. I have wondered if Origin Live is worth exploring? Perhaps a generation old Triplanar from the pre owned market?

 Any thoughts on what are viable choices? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

neonknight

Just a little real life experience. For many years (1970s and 80s) I had a SME 3012 on a Thorens player. Then, I changed to a VPI HW-19, and the Souther / Clearaudio Triquartz parallell arm. Despite a huge amount of tweaking, this combination never worked out for me. An audio friend commented, its like a skate slipping this way and that in the track. So, I changed to a SME V in 2004, and have been quite happy ever since. It performed better than the Triquartz on the VPI, and even better on the Hanss T30 (from 2014) using magnetic bearing instead of springs. I mainly used Lyra carts (Clavis, Titan, Atlas). My impression is that SME V + Lyra Atlas + a stable (not spring-suspended) player = quite good. Like, "no worry" good. I have experimented with some more weight on the arm, and some oil in the damper reservoir, etc, but have basically gone back to ’default’. By the way, I am allergic to pitch problems, since I play the flute, and the Hanss T30 (six strings, two motors) is quite good (= not a big problem), while the VPI HW-19 was problematic, even with all the upgrades + SDS power.

The best thing I ever did  for my system, regardless of player, arm etc, was to mount a support in the basement right beneath the stereo rack with the player in our living and listening room. Cost ca nothing. Before, when I jumped in front of my player, the cart would skip. After, almost never.

 

@o holter

 

I remember looking at the Amari turntables at one time, I believe they are the OEM builder for Hanss. I thought about their multi level tables, but did not pull the trigger. Instead on Audiogon I found a dealer sellign a demo Scheu Audio Das Laufwerk No 2, and I chose that as my second table. The speed regulation on the SOTA with the new motor and Phoenix Engineering controls is supposed to be superb, and to be honest I cannot hear any issues with the system Scheu uses. I have heard the VPI several times and had a Prime here for awhile, I am not fond of the VPI motors. 

 

What is the age of your V? Have you done anything to it? Do you still run OEM phono cable and the cartridge wires?

 

@o_holter , your experience with the Souther arm is typical. If you are the least bit discerning they will drive you nuts, almost as nuts as air bearing arms. If you are looking for the ultimate pitch stability you need to check out vacuum clamping. My own feelings about VPI are well known. 

@lewm , AJ Conte, Edgar Vulchur, Marc Dohmann, David Fletcher, Hideaki Nishikawa to name a few. 

neonknight - my SME V was made in October 1999. In 2016 I asked SME about service and upgrade. Answer: unless something wrong, maybe not needed. But for 555 pounds they would do a full service + testing + new internal wire (silver litz van den Hul). I thought it was fair, but I checked the arm myself, found no obvious problems, and have never done it. Likewise, the phono cable stays the same, Kimber KCAG soldered to the DIN plug to the arm (a bit tricky). I borrowed a Hovland cable but heard only marginal improvement over the Kimber. Never tried a balanced phono cable. My phono stage can take this, but the general debate is that it does not matter much unless there are problems with single ended (the Io’s first gain stage is not truly balanced, anyway).

What HAS made a big difference to me, lately: 1) I was lucky, getting a quad of excellent ultra low noise Telefunken in the critical first gain stage of the Io, 2) fine-tuning the azimuth with a Fozgometer, plus other small cartridge adjustments, and 3) working more with speaker positioning. Small "boring" things that can add up to a lot. All in the service of a more quiet, stable, balanced dimensional stereo image.

The Hanss T30 is an entirely different animal compared to my VPI hw19 mk4, and my short verdict is "better". I agree with you regarding the VPI motors. In this and other respect the Hanss is clearly superior (although the SDS is perhaps the best power control, or at least more convenient to adjust, compared to the little box that comes with the Hanss). To compare the two, I recorded to DSD on my Tascam DA-3000. So I could A-B switch, comparing pitch, timbre etc. The Hanss won out. Someone wrote that Hanss cannot really rock (a Townshend player was better), but it has never bothered me. A friend of mine has the bigger brother, the T60, and it has a bit more deep bass and explosive dynamics than my T30, but these are basically similar-sounding designs. I have never heard Scheu, or even SOTA. I got a T30 demo for a very good price (ca usd 2800) ten years ago and have basically stopped looking for another player. I like the ideas behind the Hanss design, and find that they work well, like two motors, totally isolated from the player, strings pulling the platter evenly, from each side. The platter is clearly held in a much tighter ’grip’ than on the VPI (a critic might say; even so, with 6 strings, you get all the troubles of these rubber type strings, they vibrate, etc - and although averaged and evened out, it is not quite = full precision). Further, the magnetic bearing works much better than the springs on the VPI, even after placing the HW-19 on a Bright Star platform, and other tweaks I tried. That actually did help the HW-19 sound, but only after a lot of base / feet / platform tweaking. Which I got "free" so to speak with the Hanss. I placed the T30 directly on my solid stone rack top shelf, and have never felt the need for more tweaks, sand box, etc - no thanks.

I don’t blame my SME V for my troubles with the VPI player, it sounded ok on this spring-loaded turntable also, but it clearly likes the more stable Hanss platform better. There is no skipping or mistracking, except when the LP has a major problem.

I am interested in good ways to go, based on the system we have, for a low cost. In my case, maybe I should check the SME damping. A little more oil might do the trick. I have some treble noise or sibilance, on some recordings at least. Also, the Hanss player might sound even better with a linear power supply.

Arguments within arguments. Mijostyn, I don’t understand the meaning behind your listing BD TT designers in a post addressed to my attention. I am not dogmatic about drive systems and never have been. It’s just that in recent years I’ve found DD to be the best bang for the buck, while restricting my choices to the best vintage Japanese models and after updates and replinthing all but the L07D. I admit that for about 10 years I was collecting rather than really filling a need. (Because who really needs 5 TTs?) I think you’re confusing me with Pindac. Apology accepted in advance. None of the three commonly used drive systems is flawless.