Okay......best single box reference CD player

Yet some are already working with 32-bit DACs for new upsampling schemes. Those 32-bit DACs are under $50. What's better, a new 32-bit generic DAC or a ten-year old 16 DAC built like a brick sh*t house?? I don't know and I think that a lot depends on the designer's skills.

Just like a Wall Street hedge fund manager, Charles is good at "talking his own book." There's more than one way to skin a cat, particularly in digital technology.

Dave

Larryi,

You're scaring me. Are you saying that some premium manufacturers charge a premium for older digital CD technology because older CD digital technology is better?

I love antiques myself. Antique technology may hold value for historical and collectible reasons but when someone tells me that older digital technology is inherently better than newer digital technology, something doesn't sound right.

From my equipment and listening experience, I believe that most common stock CD players today are way better than high end players from 10 years back or more.

Though any digital format, like CD, must have some inherent technical limits, whether realized in practice or not, digital playback is one area that should continually benefit from new technology innovations and the cost benefits that come from marketing successful new technology products over time.

Multi-format DVD players are perhaps more popular than CDs these days. Perhaps that is where the current advancements are occurring most rapidly and catching up or perhaps even surpassing that of pure CD players?

Very interesting topic and discussion, by the way!

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. It sounds like he's making a valid point for many things, in that products produced before heavy commoditization in the field are often times better in quality than newer products, which may also have different priorities going into their design. Of course, that's to be determined on a case-by-case basis.

With regard to the comment about "stock" CDPs now versus units produced 10 years ago, my Wadia 861se GNSC Statement unit would beg to differ and raise you a Meridian 808.2i to boot.

Some ultra-premium manufacturers, such as Zanden, and Naim (for their CD555 and CDS3 player), use legacy chips that are no longer made. Whether they are charging more because of this, or for any other reason, it is hard to say. But, a manufacturer that uses such chips must factor in their scarcity, and must limit production because some parts have to be held in reserve for repairs and servicing the product for years to come.

By the way, the Audionote DAC-5, which uses "primitive" technology is, to me, one of the very best DACs on the market. I also agree with Bar81 that a GNSC-modified Wadia is no slouch when compared to just about anything out there.

Guys, I'll withhold judgment on sonic merits of specific high end players until I do some more listening, but I must confess all the talk about some of these vendors using older, scarce chips is a big red warning flag to me.

If I drop a small fortune on a player, I want to be assured that parts exist and it can be kept running indefinitely. I would probably also expect a pretty decent warranty?

Also, I've noticed that many recent ultra high end players listed here on Agon seem to go for much less than originally paid for whatever reason, so rationally, one must factor depreciation into the buying equation as well.