2. amps-preamps
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My experience with the First Watt F7

I think that many of us have a mental list of components and speakers we would like to try if circumstances and finances allow, and I'm no different. My finances are more limited than many members, but within my means I have been able to try quite a few different things over the years.

About six weeks ago I saw an ad for an F7 in great condition and having efficient speakers, it had been on my wish list to try not only because it was made for speakers just like mine, but also because I had never read a negative review of it or any of the other First Watt amps.

I want to say here that I have a lot of respect for Nelson Pass as a innovative designer and a businessman, and I once had a very positive experience with Pass Labs on a service issue. The reason that I am writing this brief review is because one member who knew that I had bought it had requested my impressions, and I am also curious to know the impressions and experiences of others here who may have owned this amp.

When I first received it, I gave ir a couple of hours to warm up. I sat down to listen, and initial impressions were good, but not great. There was good clarity in the mids and treble region, and stage width was very good but not better than what I was accustomed to. I noticed two negatives on the second day. The first was that the perceived size of instrumental images, for instance Stan Getz's sax, were 15-20% smaller. That wasn't a deal breaker, just an observation. I also noted that the timbre/tone of the sax, as well as other wind instruments and strings was not as natural sounding as I am used to.

Three days in, I was listening from the next room while working, and by now I knew that there was something else about the presentation that was more serious that was bothering me. I stopped what I was doing and put on a couple of specific songs to test a hunch, and that is when I identified the problem. The amp had no "flow", and even though individual instruments were well separated and clear sounding, nothing hung together like a real group playing together. Each instrument sounded like a separate event that didn't relate to the others. I had never had this experience before, but once I identified it, I couldn't "unhear" it. I also noticed at that time that electric guitars sounded different and less authentic than they had on other tube and solid state amps I have owned.

Finally, and this was surprising, the bass was noticeably opaque and lacking detail. I sat there in front of it listening one day, and I thought that if I was young again, and new to audio, this would probably be an amp that would impress me. 

I sold it within two weeks, confident that it was not the amp for me, but grateful that I had the opportunity to try one for myself.

I would like to hear the experiences of others familiar with the F7. 

 

  

128x128roxy54
smatsui
168 posts
 

@roxy54, none of your components are the same as mine, as well as differences in our listening rooms and our preferences, so it’s not surprising our opinions of the F7 are different.  In your original post you asked for other user experiences with the F7 and that’s what I’ve provided.  You and I heard the same amp in two completely different systems, listening rooms, and ears and we have opposing opinions of the amp.  If I heard the F7 in your system chances are I wouldn’t have liked it.  If you heard the F7 in my system you might like it, and then again you might not.  My main system has Harbeth M40.1 speakers that are warm and organic sounding to my preference.  If you heard it, you might think it sounds like muck.  Different strokes for different folks.

I bought my F7 from Mark at Reno HiFi.  When I called him, my intentions were to buy the First Watt F8 or a XA25.   TBH, I had never even given the F7 a thought.  After telling him about my system and my preferences, he strongly recommended the F7.  Mark told me he was a big fan of Klipsch speakers, and that his listening preference priorities were the same as mine while recommending the F7.  I think his recommendation hit the nail squarely on the head.  

Before getting the F7, my Cornwall’s mids and highs couldn’t come close to matching my M40.1.  In particular, string tone didn’t sound as natural, female vocals were a bit harsher, sax didn’t sound as full in comparison to the Harbeths.  The F7 has closed this gap by a substantial amount such that I don’t even think about the differences anymore and now I thoroughly enjoy listening to my Cornwall IVs.

decooney
2,130 posts
 

I wonder if there was an impedance mismatch issue or something else weird going on here with some preamps/amp combinations used.  Looking at the different FW amps, most of the latest versions were at least 100k ohm input impedance. The F7 is 10k ohms. Comments anyone?

 

F8

  100K

SIT-3   

  200K

F7

   10K

F6

  100K

SIT-1

  100K

SIT-2

  100K

J2

  100k
smatsui
168 posts
 

@decooney, yes I was aware of the F7’s low input impedance. That fact makes matching a preamp (especially a tube preamp) more difficult. When I talked with Mark at Reno HiFi, he told me that many tube preamps don’t match well with the F7. I have a SS and a tube preamp, Holo Serene KTE (SS) and Van Alstine FET Valve CF (tube), so he said that the SS preamp will work well with the F7. I’ve tried both of my preamps with the F7 and I think both sound great but different. I think the Serene KTE has more defined and tighter bass. The Serene sounds faster and more neutral where as the AVA preamp sounds more relaxed.

I use a REL S5 subwoofer with my Cornwall IVs so the bass is not a problem with the tube preamp and the F7 in my system. I think the solid state Serene is a little better than the tube AVA preamp in my system but both sound great. If roxy54 was using a tube preamp it may have caused the bass and musical flow issue that he heard with the F7. My Cornwalls are known for their tight bass because their 15 inch woofer hardly moves at all by design. Other Klipsch speakers may not mate as well to the F7. The F7 is definitely not a universal fit in most systems. Like I mentioned above, you’re more likely to have a positive outcome with the F7 using a solid state pramp because of the F7’s low input impedance.

jl35
4,036 posts
 

On the First Watt home page,  Nelson Pass seems quite clear that First Watt in general, and each model specifically, are designed for unique situations, needs, preferences, and not meant as a general amp lineup for everyone...at Mark's suggestion, I used my F7 with Rowland Capri ll preamp and Avalon Ascendant ll speakers, in small/medium room, and sound was awesome...

roxy54's avatar
roxy54 OP
8,045 posts
 

@decooney 

That difference in impedance is really interesting and could have accounted for what heard. Thanks for the information.

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