2. misc-audio
  3. 182927-125055

Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)

About 25 years ago I was inside a large room with an A-frame ceiling and large skylights, during the Perseid Meteor Shower that happens every August. This one time was like no other, for two reasons: 1) There were large, red, fragmenting streaks multiple times a minute with illuminated smoke trails, and 2) I could hear them.

Yes, each meteor produced a sizzling sound, like the sound of a frying pan.

Amazed, I Googled this phenomena and found that many people reported hearing this same sizzling sound associated with meteors streaking across the sky. In response, scientists and astrophysicists said it was all in our heads. That, it was totally impossible. Why? Because of the distance between the meteor and the observer. Physics does not allow sound to travel fast enough to hear the sound at the same time that the meteor streaks across the sky. Case closed.

ASR would have agreed with this sound reasoning based in elementary science.

Fast forward a few decades. The scientists were wrong. Turns out, the sound was caused by radiation emitted by the meteors, traveling at the speed of light, and interacting with metallic objects near the observer, even if the observer is indoors. Producing a sizzling sound. This was actually recorded audibly by researchers along with the recording of the radiation. You can look this up easily and listen to the recordings.

Takeaway - trust your senses! Science doesn’t always measure the right things, in the right ways, to fully explain what we are sensing. Therefore your sensory input comes first. You can try to figure out the science later.

I’m not trying to start an argument or make people upset. Just sharing an experience that reinforces my personal way of thinking. Others of course are free to trust the science over their senses. I know this bothers some but I really couldn’t be bothered by that. The folks at ASR are smart people too.

nyev
prof
3,468 posts
 

cleeds,

Amir does listen to much of what he reviews. You know it.

And in the instances he does not, when you say Amir merely has a "wordy rationalizations to justify that - undermines whatever science he’s trying to pursue."

That is a completely unsupported claim on your part. He may well have a perfectly good justification. It’s like if you claimed that I need to come to your place to see your Perpetual Motion machine, and if I point out that current understanding of physics suggests your claim is so unlikely it’s not worth my while to make such a trip. The reason for not bothering to "go see your perpetual machine" would BE based on currently understood science!    You could try to dismiss my reasons as some "wordy rationalization" but that does NOT actually address the REASONS. It’s just a dismissal of an argument using a lazy characterization rather than an actual rebuttal.

Likewise, if Amir doesn't listen to a certain component after measuring, he may well be justified based on all sorts of studies and science that tell us "X won't be audible."

If you want to point to specific examples to make your case, and you can show why Amir was unjustified in not listening...be my guest.

 

 

 

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,912 posts
 

prof

... It's like if you claimed that I need to come to your place to see your Perpetual Motion machine, and if I point out that current understanding of physics suggests your claim is so unlikely it's not worth my while to make such a trip.  You could try to dismiss my reasons ...

That's the logical fallacy of the Exluded Middle. Don't be silly.

If you want to point to specific examples to make your case, and you can show why Amir was unjustified in not listening...be my guest.

I've already done that. In my view, a test of an audio component is not complete without a listening evaluation. I understand you disagree, and that Amir disagrees vehemently. So be it.

thespeakerdude
483 posts
 

https://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm

 

All I get from this @andy2 is that you can fool Michael Fremer all of the time. I will defer to @amir_asr who I believe is an EE, but even I can tell that article is just blowing smoke. An honest article would hook up the power cable to an off the shelf unmodified audio product and show the measured waves with AC input not a fake input.

andy2
1,545 posts
 

If you want to point to specific examples to make your case

I think Amir needs to test equipment using transient methods.  I think his tests mostly are done using frequency domain which is steady state.  Most of stuffs in music happens in transient.

 

invalid
1,148 posts
 

@prof  Amir listens all right, like when he listened to one Magnepan LRS, after he measured them like they were a small bookshelf speaker.

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