Phono Stage upgrade to complement Dohmann Helix One Mk 2

drbond , you will hate any analog high pass filter.

^That^ is a bold statement.

And how do we reconcile the fact that most speakers have a crossover in them, and those are analogue?
(Or are we throwing that out because the ESLs may not?)

While I generally appreciate digital, when one has a nice analogue system, there is an allure in keeping the front end free of digital.

To operate a subwoofer correctly all filters have to be digital. The highest quality units now use 64 bit floating point processors and have none of the issues older units had like the volume control problem. Conversions in and out of 24/192 are invisible

The idea that a sample rate and bit depth used for recording bats and other high frequencies is “required”, starts to fly in the face of logic.
Couple that with people tolerating many % of distortion in the lowest registers makes that paragraph a bit absurd.

I like digital as much as the next fellow, but one could just about do the math with a slide rule or abacus and keep up, and the idea of 64-bit math for the signal that has the highest amplitude in the spectrum means with probably could do it with 8-bits and 500 samples/second.

But if you are saying that the HPF for the main speakers should be 24bit/192k or something like that, then I have no argument. One pretty much needs that to keep the HP stuff that is going to the main speakers sounding good at 20kHz and beyond.
 

… can a high grade analog capacitor (e.g. silver Duelund CAST) be used for the HPF to the ESL with good results? 

Of a battery biased HPF.
Is your connection from preamp to amp RCA or balanced?
(I am guessing XLR if you ran Atmasphere amps at some point.)

I cannot figure out a way to post a photo of the inside of my Vandy M5-HP (high pass filters), and I have the older RCAs as well. The XLR ones have a row of dip switches for matching to the amp’s input impedance, which then makes the knee of the curve exactly at 100Hz.

I am not overly “bowled over” with the battery biasing cables, but perhaps there is something to it. And the cotton and silk covered cables do not have the dielectric polarising issues… and people rave about them… so maybe it makes a difference.

What are the higher end passive sub woofers on the market? (I do have an extra couple of amplifiers (class A and AB) sitting around).

The powered subs are more of a system, and there is an allure to having a sub that either comes on when the rest of the system does, or has some efficient amp that can be left on.

Other than power outages, mine was on for 20 years in the old house.
I rarely even thought about it… it just sat in the corner.

While I am intending on some DIY jobs for the new house, a lot of that is for Feng Shui and WAF… and there not a lot of choice in my location nor places to find them in the wild or in shops. In FLA they should be “springing up” somewhere.

@holmz

My pre-amplifier has two outputs: RCA and XLR, so I can run the RCA to the amplifier and the XLR to the subwoofer, or vice-versa, as the amplifier has both RCA and XLR inputs. I was leaning towards a lower crossover for the HPF, somthing like 80 Hz, or maybe 60-80 Hz, to keep the midrange in the ESL’s. The input impedance of the Ypsilon Hyperion is 22 kOhm, and I was looking at a silver capacitor to make the HPF happen, although, I’ve got much to learn about the science and the curves.

I figure I could use a digital LPF crossover for the subwoofers, since the signal to the bass might not be so noticeably affected by the change.  

Dear @drbond  : As you go followwed reading through google you will make more false assumptions as that one that Velodyne are more for multi-channel HT. Your ststement is not only false but wrong Nothing bad with that because you are or better yet you want to be a newcomer to the sub's room/system integration.

ML is no better than Velodyne: the cone are made by aluminum even Paradigm carbon X and the kind of fiberglass by Velodyne surpass the ML and as almost all subs ML uses too     las D amps but there is something crucial that in this thread already was posted and that crucial issue is that we add subwoofers in our high end room/system first to make the IMD and THD goes as lower we can and this issue is to improve severely the whole room/system quality performance ML only bla, bla, bla, in its site ( I know that this bla, bla is something you like it. Ok but means almost nothing ) but with out facts/measures no other but Magico shows its sub's THD a 20hz full SPL.

Velodyne 12" has a better and lower measured frequency response than the ML. So What's your deal about?

Do you think that all those subwofeers manufacturers that use clas D amplifiers all those amps are almost the same ? yes?  wrong all those amps are different because each used woofer is different, its self unique characteristics  demads that the amplifier can achieve what that woofer     needs to shows at its best.

No, your class A or AB you own can't even the woofer needs and this means higher distortions.

@mijostyn  is the " worst "  ( no offense. )  audiophile gentleman to take it as an example because what he found out was the " holly grail " on that bass rangebut that " holly grail " is only his " holly grail " . He likes to play with his computer/digital that at the ends he used as a very advanced digital equalizer because he manipulated the system frequency response on  some discrete frequency to tame the tone color to the tone color that likes mijostyn. Fine with me but not my cup of tea because it does not make sense to put all his efforst in analogue TT/TONEAR/CArtridges and the like when the system signal at the end the signal coming from his speakers/subs are both digital that pass through two filters: ADC/DAC. Again fine with me.

Silver Duelund cap?, ( no offense please ) but you are the typical audiophile that as higher its price has to be better when that Duelund is no more that a mid-fi capacitor. You can read my capacitor thread where you find out several links and first hand experiences with information why the Duelund is mid-fi and what is the role of a cap that has nothing to do with its price. You are a novice too on caps., even some manufaturers of speakers  too.

My opinion is that your first step in the " rigth " direction to trial sub's is not the external HPF but a complete subwoofer unit as the 12" Velodyne ones.

R.

Mijostyn, Speaking for myself only, I am curious to learn what you use to effect steep crossover points in the digital domain. 

I didn't state it previously, but the crossover is a matter of trade-offs.  Mijo makes the case for a very steep hi-pass filter.  The rationale for that is you want as much as possible to reduce the burden on the main speakers to produce bass frequencies.  To do that, of course a steep HPF slope is in order.  The problem is that filters with very steep slopes are very likely to color the upper frequencies (because a lot of parts are needed to effect a steep slope, each of which is likely to reduce fidelity) and to introduce phase shift.  (I am not convinced phase shift is such an audible problem if kept moderate, especially with our dipolar radiators.)  One reason I am intrigued by the Pass XVR1 is that it can do a 24db/octave slope with Linkwitz-Riley character.  In L-R, the phase shift is no worse than that of a Butterworth 6db/octave filter. The XVR1 is a stand alone electronic crossover; in theory you would use it with a subwoofer that had no built-in crossover and which was driven by a separate outboard amplifier.  Does anyone know of a commercial subwoofer with built in x-over and amplification that also affords a L-R filter?  On the other hand, selecting a HPF with 6db/octave slope, whether done actively (using whatever HPS is built in to your chosen high end subwoofer) or passively, using a capacitor in series with the amplifier input is least likely to do harm to the main speaker's output.  Obviously, in a given case with lots of $$$ having been spent, a steep HPF might sound great.  That's why I am curious to know what Mijo uses for a digital filter ahead of his speakers.

drbond, for your amplifiers with a 22K ohm input impedance, about an 0.1uF capacitor would give you a HPF at 80Hz, 6db/octave, assuming a single-ended input.  My choice among capacitors I have heard would probably be a Russian SSG silver mica capacitor,

Hi drbond:

I’m using the KRONOS PHONO PREAMPLIER.

I only can say that it deserves a chance.

I could use words to describe the sound and silence, but 

much better if you can test it. No come back.

Can support all LOMC.

I enjoy the electrostatic sound of SOUNDLAB U-545

and Atma-Sphere. The combo is magic when you feel all details.

Regards,

My speakers are Soundlab 545