Tonearms without anti-skate, damage to records?


I am picking up a pivoted tonearm without any provision for bias (anti-skate) force. I would appreciate opinons on if using this arm can damage my records or phono cartridge due to the lack of this feature. Thanks.

Marty
128x128viridian

Yes to Anti-Skate.

For a community that believes that less dust on the outside of a cable improves things, it is surprising that absolutely scientifically proven forces are denied.

No anti-skate: It will be riding the inside of the groove, wearing that side of the groove and that side of the stylus more, not quite fully down in the groove, bouncing within the groove. L and R reproduction WILL vary.

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Blank Disk, spin by hand: IT PULLS IN (if not, something is wrong).

 

just add outward force until it floats steadily, or just barely pulls in. done. check from time to time.

change headshell with different cartridge:

1. anti-skate back to zero.

2. VTA/arm height: either height of cartridge same as prior, or change tonearm height, thus easy arm height adjust a desired feature.

3. azimuth: tighten headshell while viewing stylus from front, on a mirror same thickness of lp (any deviation will show 'opposite' in the mirror).

4. set new tracking force

5. blank lp, set anti-skate.

You get pretty quick at it.

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My final anti-skate test (you also need CD version to 1st hear ’correct’ l/r sound)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_in_San_Francisco

clarity/balance/location of center reveals much. btw, this is where a cartridge with very tight channel balance helps refine the center guitar. wide separation is also nice, but more precise location of center more important for anti-skate listening.

Checking specs, you will find, advanced stylus shapes (better/greater groove contact/less wear to both grooves and stylus (forces distributed over larger contact area) have better channel balance and channel separation than elliptical as well as MC typically best MM. Moving Iron can be exceptional I read, never heard one.

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The forces involved are incredible.

some quickie finds:

(from shure, more below): "concentration of pressure upon the points of contact is calculated, we find it to be approximately 26 tons per square inch". (spherical)

"it had been calculated that the local forces involved in pushing a diamond into a soft, plastic record must take the plastic material beyond its elastic limit."

https://pspatialaudio.com/record_wear.htm

"The proper relationship between the stylus tip and the record groove is extremely important. The impressions on the walls of the record groove are microscopic, three-dimensional duplicates of the sound waves which created them. The pickup stylus must follow with extreme exactitude the variations of these impressions. This can only be accomplished if the original shape of the stylus tip is maintained."

https://service.shure.com/s/article/stylus-wear-and-record-wear?language=en_US

 

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I feel lucky to just find this:

Shure Bulletin, Original 1954; Last Edit Date 7/18/2022

https://service.shure.com/s/article/stylus-wear-and-record-wear?language=en_US

excerpts (for those who don’t RTFM).

A 33 1/3 RPM record has about 225 grooves per inch, each groove approximately one-half the width of a human hair. The groove on a 12 inch, 33 1/3 RPM record, if uncoiled, would be over one-half mile in length.

The shape and size of the impressions engraved in the rotating disc are determined by the pitch and level of the signal being recorded. The higher the pitch, the greater the number of times per second the cutting stylus will vibrate from side to side. The level of the sound being recorded also affects the impressions engraved upon the disc. Increasing the recorded level causes the cutting stylus to engrave deeper impressions into the walls of the grooves. Conversely, a reduction in level causes a reduction in the distance the cutting stylus swings from left to right, causing it to engrave shallower impressions. These impressions, as mentioned earlier, are microscopic three dimensional duplicates of the sound wave pattern. (stereo, even more complicated, came after this bulletin was written in 1954).

stampers are changed after each 250 pressings, since even the microscopic wear created in pressing is not tolerated in precision record manufacture. This is how a record is manufactured and how the impressions are created on the walls of the grooves.

(again, mono grooves are being discussed): The stylus tip, when in good condition, touches the groove walls at only two points. The entire weight of the stylus and the structure which holds it is concentrated at these two microscopically small points. When this concentration of pressure upon the points of contact is calculated, we find it to be approximately 26 tons per square inch.

walls of the record grooves are, of course, subject to the same pressure, but only for the fraction of a second

stylus tip in the record groove follows a path in much the same manner as automobile tires would follow the ruts in a country road.

This friction causes the gradual wearing away of the stylus material at these points, and creates what are called "flats". The amount and degree of wear are apparent when the tip is viewed from the side, using a microscope. It is these flats on the stylus tip which are the direct cause of increased record wear, distortion, and reduced tonal range. Although these flats appear on both sides of the stylus tip, the amount of wear is not the same on both sides because of the side thrust created by the tone arm mounting method. This can be off-set somewhat by proper setting of the anti-skate force.

Depending on the wear, the stylus tip can become a cutting tool, and if continued in use, it will eventually take the shape of a miniature chisel.

wearing process is also hastened by the abrasive action of dust in the grooves. The wear on both the stylus and the record groove can be considerable.

the downward pressure of the stylus tip on the record groove. The greater this pressure the greater the amount of friction generated between the walls of the record groove and the stylus tip. Increased friction naturally results in increased wear.

check the stylus pressure once a month.

worn stylus tip will no longer fit into the engraved depressions since the flat on the stylus tip is wider than the opening of the depression. stylus tip obviously cannot follow with "extreme exactitude" the variations in the groove, the signal is nowhere near a perfect replica of the original recorded sound wave

the higher the quality of the reproducing equipment the wider its tonal range, and any distortion of the high pitched sounds is immediately apparent.

average record collection is usually worth more than the equipment on which it is used, and includes irreplaceable recordings. Preservation of the records should be the most important consideration.

Also of considerable importance is the ability of the pickup itself to follow the impressions engraved upon the groove walls with the least resistance to the motion they cause. This is called "trackability" and is related to a specification called "compliance."

Due to its great hardness, the diamond can be polished to a higher degree than any other substance. A higher polish results in a smoother finish, which greatly reduces friction.

An analysis of the "dust" removed from a number of stylus tips, which had been used on dirty records, showed that it consisted of approximately; 12% jagged silica particles, 35% diamond dust, 40% miscellaneous particles, including soot, grit and particles worn from the record groove itself. The remaining 13% consisted of fibers and lint. almost 65% of the extraneous material is harder than the comparatively soft record material

also increases the amount of friction. Increased friction results in increased wear on both record and stylus and also increases the amount of static electricity generated. Most plastics are insulators and retain a static charge. the friction generated by slipping the record into its jacket increases the static electricity.

Tests showed that both airborne dust and debris worn from the stylus tip itself are the greatest cause of excessive record and stylus wear. Complete removal of dust and grit from the record grooves resulted in increases of up to 60% in the useful life of both records and styli.

A record (cleaning) pad can actually damage records by scratching them and grinding microscopic particles of dust and grit into the grooves. the particles of dust and grit are often as large as the recorded impressions in the record groove. dust problem is further aggravated by the fact that the new vinylite records actually attract dust and retain it, due to their electrostatic properties.

The grooved section should never be touched, since the skin oils and grease from the hands is transferred to the record, causing any airborne dust to adhere to the spot or area touched.

any attempt to clean records is commendable and even a poor cleaning is better than none.

Completely removing dust and grit from a record is not a simple problem. A number of factors must be considered. Firstly, the cleaner must not contain any gummy substance that will remain in the engraved depressions in the record groove. Secondly, the cleaner must completely penetrate these same depressions and remove any dust or grit they may contain. Thirdly, the cleaner must not affect the record material itself in any manner. Record dust/dirt when examined under a microscope consists of grease, stylus particles, abrasive material, and solids which resemble wool fibers covered with a soft waxy substance.

consider the use of an anti-static agent as its repeated use will prevent the attraction of airborne dust or grit. record should be recoated as often as is necessary since the anti-static agent does not have a permanent effect.

 

 

 

 

And you have just proved, Elliott, why we should all be glad you are staying around!

There was a recent and rather long thread about a tonearm with no headshell angle, and designed to be mounted with underhang, rather than overhang. The designer was of the opinion that the resulting tracking errors were a lesser evil than the use of anti-skate. Needless to say, it generated much heat and little light.

The above is absurdist. Most of it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. In the big picture, everything about vinyl playback is imperfect. It is much like using a tube amp, only more complicated. Stylii wear no matter what you do. With a longer arm (10.5 or 12) and setting VTF at the higher end of the recommended range one will be just fine. 

Anyone who tells others to set AS with a blank side is out of touch. 

On the other side of things, VPI's HW conveniently recommended forgetting AS when it/he only offered unipivot arms with very awkward AS systems. 

Is AS a good idea? Yes. But how many people have the capability to set AS correctly? Very few. And how many experienced users experience problems due to incorrect AS? Quite a few. Peter Ledermann's guide on AS is one of the most reliable and the nature of his suggestion does not lend itself to precision. 

I have seen AS set by a pro using all kinds of sophisticated computer software only to be later determined to be radically off. This tool might be the current best-

https://www.wallyanalog.com/wallyskater

 

Anti-skating, however imperfect, is better than not applying some compensating force.  Just ask the people who manufacture cartridges and who have studied wear of records and styli (like the folks at SoundSmith). 

Arms that maintain tangency of the cantilever to the groove (like the Garrard zero 100 DO NOT eliminate skating force.  As long as the cantilever does not point back directly to the pivot point, skating forces are developed.  Air bearing arms, that slide along a tube to maintain tangency, for example, do not develop skating forces, but, many have extremely high horizontal inertial mass, and lacking the mechanical advantage of a fulcrum (pivot point), it takes considerable force to move the arm and this sort of negates the advantage of no skating force. 

There are some quite elaborate designs that maintain the low inertial mass of conventional pivoted arms without having an offset angle to the headshell (hence the cantilever points directly back to the pivot) that maintain proper tangency, like the Reed 5A and Schroeder LT (linear tonearm), but these arms are not cheap.

Bad deal Marty. I just replaced a Spectral cartridge used with way too much antiskating dialed in and the cantilever was permanently deflected towards the left groove wall. The same can happen with no antiskating but the deflection would be to towards the right groove wall. No antiskating also causes mistracking of the right channel to take place prematurely. Mistracking damages the groove wall.

@fsonicsmith1 , exactly. After complaining about the price and trying to come up with a better way to do this, the WallySkater is by far the most reliable way to set antiskating. Jonathan Carr of Lyra fame has suggested setting antiskating by observing the deflection of the cantilever as the stylus settles into the groove. So, I tried it with a MSL Signature Platinum then checked it with the Wallyskater and darn if it did not land exactly on 11%. I'm not sure if this technique would work with a very low compliance cartridge and I would have to do it quite a few more times to see how reliable it is, but the beauty of the Wallyskater is that as long as your tonearm has good bearings it is perfectly reliable and very reassuring and it does not rely of the observational capability of the user. If you can spend 10K on a cartridge, $250 for a WallySkater is nothing. It is a bit figgity to set up but once you are use to it set up takes all of two minutes.