What is "immersiveness" in audio experience ?

For sure you are right as always...

But i had the habit sometimes to spoke as if i was speaking to a friend, giving my most intimate thoughts instead of writing for a public crowd...

You are right for sure...

I apologize then for being "selfish" and forgetting that this is a public space...

But my goal was to give to someone, at least one, my thought and waiting for his reply and thoughts, and i received one already  by private mail, because it is a also "delicate" subject the way i described it... Then reaching at least a friend and reading his interesting answer my thread can die, if no one else dare to answer by his personal experience ....

As i said i came back here because i love people and sometimes i forgot that it is a public space, not a private space at my disposal for sure...

+1 @hilde45

less is more

more is less -- much much less in this case

I am the first who said so after Hilde45 post...That he was right...

But the content of a post is more interesting , if there is a content, than the number of words in the post as suggested by the second poster here ...Anyone is free to read or not my thread anyway ...

i think that i proposed a content to discuss...an "acoustical" precise content, a "musical" content and an interesting revelatory historical story which goes with it ...

Now criticizing my long post goes nowhere , each one of us has his individuality, right or wrong...

And i am in the habit here most of the times to criticize content, not people for the sake of criticizing them ...

And it takes very good reason to criticize a thread started by someone in good faith ...

Hilde45 critic is right... My text is not ideally suited to appeal the crowd here...

But suggesting that my opening thread is too long and that i must "shorten " it is not acceptable for me as OP...

Because there is a content dificult to explain and a complex content to allude to in the objective acoustic dimension and in the subjective experience ......

I am interested by posters who will be able to communicate their own thoughts about this complex matter ...

But for sure many people are not used to face complex problems, i then apologize if my thread ask for their brain to work too hard...But they can pass over it .. 😁

I understand what you are going for here. From my experience I would go at it from a different direction. To me poor rhythm and pace is the major factor that prevents immersion. You can have incredibly holography without immersion. So, for me, the thing that really draws me in is the musicality… so, for me Audio Research and Sonus Faber versus Rowland and Wilson for instance. Then add on top of that add good imaging and other characteristics.

Interesting observation and experience...

A system is musical or not first as "timbre" experience...If the system give too much bad distortion , no immersiveness for sure...

Add to that an unnatural, or artificial timbre rendition no immersiveness for sure...

Musicality is related for me to timbre experience and the subtle hues and perceived "colors" of the different instruments alone or together...

But i forgot DYNAMIC... You are right... ( because it is impossible to have good timbre without good dynamic anyway)

But once we have a minimal musicality and a good dynamic , which i supposed as already granted in my opening thread, saying that immersiveness "implicate also that the timbre experience is right to begin with , that the distortion rate is low already and that these two factors are already settled," then the immersiveness factor for me is defined by the 3 qualities related in a balanced way inside the soundfield experience: Imaging differentiation, soundstaging variable dimensions and holographical VOLUME content...But without "rythm and pace" and optimal dynamic in the incoming of sound we cannot have immersiveness...

The reason i forgot to specify dynamic as " rythm and pace" is that timbre rendition cannot be good or optimal without good dynamic from the system...

In the definition of timbre the " time envelope" and the transients and the onset of the sound are some factors even in the acoustic definition of timbre... Then i was supposing all that...

Then musicality and dynamics you are very right are mandatory for experiencing immersiveness... But i think that we need more to achieve it completely...

But you are right also in an another way, a deeper way , we are all different and pure musicality is enough for many people to reach immersiveness, or simply rythm and pace and more the dynamical aspects...

Then your post remind me that our different audio history is an important factor... I forgot that...

Anyway "immersiveness" is related to this three aspects of the soundfield which anyway cannot exist at all optimally in an audio system unable to give first natural timbre experience, musicality and dynamic for sure... But musicality of timbre as distorsion level and dynamic are as electrical factors relating to the component than purely acoustic one... And i was thinking more about acoustic... it was necessary to add your observation for adding all factors and all our listeners differences...

Thanks for this wise and useful and necessary observation...

My very best....

I understand what you are going for here. From my experience I would go at it from a different direction. To me poor rhythm and pace is the major factor that prevents immersion. You can have incredibly holography without immersion. So, for me, the thing that really draws me in is the musicality… so, for me Audio Research and Sonus Faber versus Rowland and Wilson for instance.